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m16ty 
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Location: TN
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 Topic: 185 water in oil
Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 9:28pm |
I bought a 185 that was getting water in oil. The previous owner had already pulled the head when I got it. It had antifreeze in it so it didn't freeze. It has been rebuilt recently so that rules out electrolysis.
My first thought was a sleeve o-ring. So I put the head back on and pulled the oil pan so I could perform a pressure test. The pressure held good (about 7 lbs) for a little while and no leaks but I went back and checked on it after a couple of hours and there was water in the floor and the pressure had dropped. It appears that there is no water comming from the sleeve area. It looks like the water is dripping off of the cam at several places. You can shine a light down into the top of the head (looking at the lifters) and it appears to be wet in there but I can't tell if it's oil or water ( I may need to get a stronger light). I'm starting to wonder if it was water spilled into that area when the head was removed and it's slowly leaking past the lifters and onto the cam. My pressure pump and gauge is old so that could account for the pressure drop over time.
I'm going to let it sit a couple more days and see what happens but I was just wondering if anybody has been there before and had any ideas.
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Hurst
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Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 9:41pm |
I forget if the 185's had the "upgraded" head with the copper injector sleeves, but if it does have that head, I wouldn't rule those out. That's what ended up giving out first in my 7000's 301. A good shop can pressure test the head and find a leak there.
Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 9:50pm |
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Does that engine have the core plugs in the top of the head like the older engines had? The 201 and 226 would get coolant in the oil when the"freeze" plugs rusted out.
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TedBuiskerN.IL.
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Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 10:05pm |
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Just had a freeze plug rust out on my 39 RC, so the smaller engines do that too.
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Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 7:39am |
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Pull the valve cover and look at each of the threaded-in plugs (on top under the rocker arm shaft) and see if the head isn't cracked at one of them. Be even more helpfull if it has anitfreeze in it, as the leaks will be easier to find. 185's don't have a copper sleeve head.
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tbran
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 1:13pm |
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Probably as the good Dr sez, but if no antifreeze is found upstairs (a good dye in the water will help) - use a radiator pump up kit, put about 15 psi in the sysytem, pull the pan drain plug and beg steal or borrow a bore camera and look up through the hole - one can see which oring was cut during installation.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 1:17pm |
 DrAllis wrote:
Pull the valve cover and look at each of the threaded-in plugs (on top under the rocker arm shaft) and see if the head isn't cracked at one of them. Be even more helpfull if it has anitfreeze in it, as the leaks will be easier to find. 185's don't have a copper sleeve head. |
I thought very late 185's had the mark II head with sleeves. Not sure that would be his problem anyway, just asking. Ed.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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mtanut
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 2:01pm |
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Years ago I helped a guy tear his 185 down for water issues. If I remember right there was a flaw in the block where one of the sleeves set. We dried the area good and smeared jb weld on the flaw and let it set for a day then re-assembled. You might drop Bill a call at Sandy Lake and get his 2 cents worth on it.
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I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, Model K gleaner, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's)John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff.
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skipwelte
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 4:48pm |
you could easily have an oring problem. Just because it doenst leak today doenst mean anything. i bought a 7030 that had filled the crankcase full of coolant, tractor had sat for 3 yrs or so inside. Oil and coolant were drained when parked. I pulled the oil pan, filled it full of water and put pressure on the radiator for 3 days, it held, no water leakage. I put the pan on filled it full of oil and water and drove it 20 miles home. No leadage, it sat at home for a week, Id check the oil level every nite, the 4th nite it drooped the water into the oil. I pulled the head and sleeves, found erroded orings on one sleeve, so just cause it held coolant today doent mean its good. Just my 2 cents. Id say tbran is right on the money, cut oring during installation. HTH
Edited by skipwelte - 09 Feb 2011 at 4:49pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 5:19pm |
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No 185 ever had copper sleeves for the injectors from the factory.......very late models did have Bosch injectors.
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Hurst
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 6:42pm |
I had to do the JB weld trick on my 301 block when I overhauled it. Sam was the one who told me about it. What happened to mine, and I guess most that have this problem, is you get cavitation between the sleeve and block where the o rings seal, and that causes fine pitting that you can fill in with JB weld, then sand back smooth. So far, 350+ hours and a year and a half later the engine is running great. There's not much stress on that surface, you just need something flat for the o rings to seal against, so the JB weld works great so long as you REALLY clean the surface and get all the rust out of there! Not sure that's your problem, but if you find it is, there is a solution that doesn't involve boring and resleeving the bottom bore of the block.
Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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m16ty
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 7:06pm |
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I've already got the pan off. Bottom of sleeves look good. As I said, it looks like water is running down onto the cam from somewhere up above. I'm leaning toward something wrong with the head at this point but I'm going to keep looking and see if I can pinpoint the exact source of the leak.
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m16ty
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 7:09pm |
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Tbran, I had used my pressure tester up to about 7 psi. I was afraid to go higher ( thought I may blow the radiator out or something). I'll bump it up to 15 psi and see what happens.
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