WD 45 piston/sleeve question

I just tore down a WD-45 engine that I have had for quite awhile, came into my possession "locked up". I found rather new 4 1/8 inch after market pistons, but, the rings were froze to the sleeve real bad on two of them. I got the pistons out w/o doing damage to the pistons, but the rings and sleeves are toast. Can I have a 4 inch bore sleeve bored to 4 1/8 inch and use these pistons?

Steve M C/IL wrote: Lou; 45's has precision rod but shimmed mains.The 4 1/8 sleeves I just put in had larger outside dia than the old ones(M&W) and were turned down where they fit in lower block.Used the thicker o-rings on theses new ones.Don't know how much "meat" is in std 4in sleeve wall.Unless boring is cheeeep,you can buy just sleeves.I think Jim D sells just sleeves(oktractor)

Edited by LouSWPA - 01 Jan 2011 at 10:42pm

the rest of the story...My loose crank pulley turned into a TOTAL rebuild.Started out just pull crank and get nose turned and pulley sleeved.Found 0-rings leaking antifreeze.Took crank for polish,really needed turned but was cracked.New crank.Gutted engine to replace 0-rings but top ring lands had excessive clearance(1980 circa M&W's).New Power Seal sleeve kits 4 1/8(M&W style but 6.5:1 instead of 7.3:1).These sleeves are larger dia than old M&W's but turned down at bottom bore dia and use the thicker 0-rings.If I knew at the beginning the new stuff was lower compression I'd followed Dr's orders and put the 170 or 175 AGCO guts in.Hindsight is great!Had the block line bored(no shims),decked and counterbores trued.Head got planed with new guides and valves.New cam bushings and transformed it to full flow oil system with guidence from DrAllis.It should last longer than me now. We were both born in 56.

LouSWPA wrote: I just tore down a WD-45 engine that I have had for quite awhile, came into my possession "locked up". I found rather new 4 1/8 inch after market pistons, but, the rings were froze to the sleeve real bad on two of them. I got the pistons out w/o doing damage to the pistons, but the rings and sleeves are toast. Can I have a 4 inch bore sleeve bored to 4 1/8 inch and use these pistons?   On a side note, this engine had fairly new piston/rings, bearings appeared to be newer, no shims on the rods, but the mains are shimmed. BUT, the cam bearings are so bad, I can wiggle the cam in them! Who in the world would go to all the trouble of pulling an engine, replacing the piston/rings/sleeves and probably bearings AND NOT THE CAM BEARINGS!

Lou, it was probably the same guy I got a 125 Cub Cadet with a K301 Kohler from several years ago. Someone put a new std rod on a crank that was too far out of round to clean up with a .010 rod and a new std piston. The cylinder was also so bad that a .030 over bore didn't fix it. Nice thing about that is the 301 block can be bored to fit a std 321 piston.

I may not be looking at the sleeve I think is a allis sleeve . but .0625 material removed all the way around isnt much. I was more concerned  at the depth of the oring grooves on the ones i was looking at boring plus most pistons are a 1/4 inch down or better just bore from the bottom and dont let the boring bar come all the way out to the ledge in question if I have .090 to .125 wall thickness I wouldnt worry with breakage.

Edited by mlpankey - 02 Jan 2011 at 7:19pm

wi50 wrote: I have measured the sleves and I'm pretty sure you can't bore 4" sleves to 4.125 and have any durability   I have measured the 4 1/8  Clevelite Mahle sleves in the O ring grove, to go to 4.155,  I think you will still have .090 left in the grove   In the morning I can measre a few and post.  THe CLevelite sleves use a larger O ring than M&W, but the Clevelite sleves are thicker than the M&W.

  I may be crazy but if the bore on the block is the same bore for sleeves to interchange in them then the 4 inch sleeve has to be .0625 thicker in wall than a 4.125

Edited by mlpankey - 02 Jan 2011 at 7:30pm

DrAllis wrote: Also, every 4 1/8" bore sleeve I've ever seen has smaller diameter (thickness) O-rings than the A-C sleeves.....they must be worried about sleeve strength or they wouldn't do that, would they???

bigger od oring would require a deeper groove making for less wall thickness in the grove . I know as well as you do that some pullers have been boring one of the sleeves out to 4.250. I just dont know which one and I have heard of breakage in the oring grooves at 4 1/4 from one of them. I personally could be a little thinner than .090 if I knew the piston rings were above that thin area and nothing but piston skirt was there. 

DrAllis wrote: I personally don't know of anyone boring an OEM sleeve to 4 1/4".....I only deal with 4 1/2" and 4 5/8" and that requires block boring.

OK I shouldn't implied you knew my mistake . I do know of some pullers that are boring and using the 427 truck piston .  I assumed  you had thought of it by asking for interest on manufactured sleeves at that bore. One of them told me He bore a gleanor combine engine that had stuck pistons to the 427 Chevy piston so I made another assumption that it would have had Allis sleeves in it.  He hasn't had any problems for two season but I have heard some are breaking the sleeve at the o'ring grooves when boring to 4.250.

Guys,

All I use is straight sleeve material and machine a .020" flange on the bottom and lightly press fit and loctite in the bottom bore.  Sleeve wall is 1/8th inch full length except where it is stepped on the bottom. Any good machine shop has this material available in hundreds of sizes as it can be used to repair a block with a bad hole and bring it back to Std size.

where can i find the markings to figure out who manufactured the sleeves I have been taking measurments on . Wi 50 if the sleeve is  a 4 inch bore and is thinner looks like they would be to much slop requiring a larger diameter o ring with lesser depth cut into the sleeve bUt then the outer ring would need to be close or it could move side to side . The sleeve I measured is a 4 1/8 sleeve it can go 4.188 and be fine . The 37  4 in wc sleeve I will remeasure but i was thinking it was a good candidate for a 4.200 bore if not the 4.250 427 chevy truck piston. IF you interference fit the sleeve.002 then you dont need anything to else to keep the water out of the oil. I will talk to the fellow who is running the truck pistons again . He told me he didnt do anything but bore the sleeves that were in the block I will ask him if he knows who made the sleeve. He had no reason to lie to me .I just didnt ask enough questions I guess. WI 50 Be sure to use the .125 repair sleeves and not the thin wall .090 .

Edited by mlpankey - 03 Jan 2011 at 8:50am

you can replace them easy with a .002 fit just run a weld up the center to draw them.