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a jossund 
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Location: perley mn
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 Topic: WD 45 crank in wc
Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 9:48am |
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Ok, ive been reading on the fourm here but still have one question. i have an all original 1937 allis wc. im rebuilding the engine and want to do some pulling. im plaining on putting a 4 1/8 overboar kit in it and a wd45 cam. will a wd45 crank fit in it? and what will i have have to do to make it work? diffrenrt rods, pistons? and what would be a good carb. i wana use the wc block and manifold so the exhaust exits the same.
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wi50
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 9:55am |
it will fit fine. The compression height of the pistons is different from the 4" stroke to the 4.5" stroke. Use a D17 or WD45 type piston.
Gaskets and berrings are going to be the same setup in a WC to WD45, rods are the same length and size.
The original carb is pretty small, but it would work alright. I take it you don't want to make any huge power and if you are crank starting something with any modifications isn't going to be much fun. I'd probably just use a carb from a 226 engine. Gleaner E, D-17, or like. The combine one needs a little work to work on a tractor, I have a spare one from a Gleaner E engine that would be a great cantidate for a stock type engine. It has the tractor throttle shaft put in so it will work with your governer, I put the pin in the correct side, etc., it's bead blasted cleaned up and assembled with a new kit sitting on the shelf, the only thing a bit different than the tractor carb is the choke linkage, which you can make work easy enough. I also have a core take off from an E engine if you wish to round up parts and fix it yourself. I hope you have a good 45 crank or can get one, they are getting tougher to find a good one, there' one for sale in the classifieds here and I may have a good one, it's at the machine shop getting checked out. If it's good I'm going to list some items in the classifides when it comes back.
Edited by wi50 - 01 Jan 2011 at 10:11am
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 12:56pm |
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dont waste your money on a 45 cam . find one that has been ground to a 175 specs. to purchase you will be more happier . degree it in on 104 to 108 advanced. g moline carb or a litlle smaller carb that works a little better than a 464 is a tsx 977 from a 901 ford you will have to use yor throttle shaft usaually fits the 977. I would spend the money on a 45 crank to have my four inch crank welded to a 5 inch stroke crank. not to many pullers running stock stroke.
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a jossund
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 2:07pm |
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great, thanks for the info. so i can put a 175 cam in it with no other alterations to the valvetrain?
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mlpankey
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 2:44pm |
 a jossund wrote:
great, thanks for the info. so i can put a 175 cam in it with no other alterations to the valvetrain? |
yes just use the 175 valve lash settings. 175 cam not 170 i am almost certain there different
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Steve M C/IL
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 4:07pm |
70236580-170.....70249471-175 different part no's in the "book". The one in my 45 has cast # 236582. It was given to me as a 170 cam.It has more lift.I measured them both but I don't remember the #'s.I remember about .080 diff and I think that was at the lobe? I'm not much for keeping good notes.That scratch paper probably got trashed by now.
NOTE: You will have to change oil pump gear to "full flow oiling" D17 or later to match cam.Diff pitch and #teeth.
Edited by Steve M C/IL - 01 Jan 2011 at 4:11pm
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mlpankey
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 4:20pm |
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steves right about the oil pump gear . i would have my wc cam reground to 175 specs or better and not have to worry about the gear. Or you can call barney taylor 472 big block on here and buy pretty much everything you need . valve spring valves if needed retainers and cam . All my stuff has a verbal agreement that its sold .
Edited by mlpankey - 01 Jan 2011 at 4:22pm
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a jossund
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 10:05pm |
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alright ill probably have mine reground, sounds like the best option. how about for a carb i have a tsx 773? ive reconsiderd useing the old wc manifold, what would be a good option there?
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wi50
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 10:25pm |
if you really want to use the old manifold, it may well not accpet a large G moline carb verry well, it may be quite a mis match of parts, and go backwards. Those old manifolds don't leave much room, and it doesn't appear that you are going to do much with head. It's been a while since I looked at one but the neck is pretty small
I've got a carb from an IHC combne that is in between the G moline and the D17 and E carbs. I just picked it up thinking it may be a cantidate for my 240 inch "stock" engine. It looks legit, but a larger throat and venturi. Smaller than the G moline though. I'm not sure but there were many others of the same size and style from Ford (and I think some Case) and combine applications when I was looking through the core shelf for one.
If you are going to have enough engine to pull a G Moline carb, a John Deere 6600 gas combine has a verry nice Marvel carb to use. The combine one is a bit more refined and there's hoards of them available in the junk yards. It looks more "original" than the Moline carb, and if you have enough engine to pull it, the venturi is plastic and a fair bit larger than the Moline G type. It's about $25 for the adjustable main jet to put in it as you won't want the electric shutoff the combine used. I've got some of the venturis of different sizes to try when I dyno mine, that's the only way to know for sure what works and what doesn't. I'm useing a G moline one, combine venturi, but my manifold, head and cam are worked over pretty good, a 240CID shortblock with good compression, also allowed to run it fairley fast in our stock classes.
Though if you are going for an old original looking WC, crank start, original appearing manifold, and not working to much on the head, a fairley low compression and low speed short block you may wish to stay with something fairley small.
Do you have parts to use or do you need some? I've got a good stockpile of some odds and ends if you wish. It depends on how hard you want to work or how much you want to spend. I do have some new sleves and a perfect set of M&W 4.125 bore pistons from a WD45, some nice used sleves with new O rings if you were going to bore a set and use automotive pistons. A set of long rods to fit the stock crank and use an automotive piston. Manifolds, carbs, etc. Valve train sets and a stack of cylinder heads and crankshafts. One of these days I'm going to go through it all and make a listing in the classifides.
Edited by wi50 - 01 Jan 2011 at 10:29pm
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Steve M C/IL
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 10:34pm |
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A WD45 manifold will perform better especially with a bigger carb.Dad put m&W's in the WD and was dissapointed with the change untill he put a 45 manifold and carb on it.Made a BIG difference.
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wi50
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Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 10:56pm |
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My uncle has a couple of unstyled WC's, I'd like to get one sometime, not to restore, just to leave it in all it's 70 yr old glory to pop and bang away now and then. Those old manifolds are pretty poor for makeing any power, but much better than a horse
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey
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Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 5:36pm |
g carb bolt spacing needs to be moved in . d17 intake is better . but youll be surprised at what can be done to a stock intake.
Edited by mlpankey - 02 Jan 2011 at 5:42pm
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alan-nj
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Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 6:12pm |
mitch.. so back to the original set-up---with the 4 1/8 kit and wd45 crank, and running a big marvel carb -464- how much additional improvement would you get by having the wc cam ground to 175 specs? -- alan
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mlpankey
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Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 6:32pm |
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some improvement in hp but mainly on where the power curve is . the 464 carb is limiting the available air/fuel that increased valve lift and extra cubic inches could handle . You need the all extra valve lift you can get on the intake more so than the exhaust side and this is why I believe allis staggered the valve lash . It is my opinion if the carb will hold your hand at cranking speed 400 rpm or less then its not large enough to hinder its lugging ability . I have never really seen one run at a lower than 400 rpm and be effectively pulling anything.jmho
Edited by mlpankey - 02 Jan 2011 at 6:44pm
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alan-nj
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Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 6:48pm |
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so what's your preferred carb for that set up?
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mlpankey
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Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 6:56pm |
alan-nj wrote:
so what's your preferred carb for that set up? |
on a 8.1 cr 175 cam I thingk the air inlet bottom of the 977 style carb is better more compression and the fuel curve will get into the g moline carb at about 190 cfm . Anything 310 cubic inch or bigger with compression and 175 cam something in the 300 cfm range like a usx 21. Increasing carb size for cfm is something you can physically hear in the tone of the exhaust.
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