Weigh Stations in Indiana

Friend got pulled over yesterday with his grain truck. It wasn't the MNDOT but a county deputy. He wasn't speeding and he didn't have anything visibly wrong but the deputy told him it looked like he was over weight. Made him pull aside and wait for MNDOT to show up with a scale. He was 1,600# underweight. Then the DOT guy checked over his whole truck and only found his mud flaps were about an inch too high. No ticket but delayed him about 45 minutes to an hour while combine sits waiting in the field just to satisfy an idiot deputy. Truck was MNDOT inspected a couple days before. Is one officer's tape measure different from another's?

Once you cross state lines, if you fall under commercial, it's federal regs that apply and not state. Kind of like Don says, if you get stopped, it's your _____ on the trailer. If it happens to be farm machinery, "I'm just a collector, I don't farm with it."

Okay, there's plenty of vague info here.  Since my company's business is intimately interoperative with the subject, I'm gonna step in and help sort a few things out.

The ORIGINAL question, was "Do I Have To Stop At The Scales".

The answer is:  Depends on state, your vehicle, your trailer, your vehicle and trailer's liscense.  Each state is different.  Feel confident that if you drive past a sign that says "All Vehicles Over 6000lbs MUST WEIGH", and you're over 6k and don't, they'll come GET you.  If they say "TRUCKS OVER 13 Tons GVW", and you're driving a 16k gvw pickup, you have CAUSE FOR ARGUMENT.

Next:  WHAT is a COMMERCIAL VEHICLE?

The answer is:  Definition depends on state.  I'll dispel the comment that a vehicle is automatically commercial if it crosses state lines.  Next, just because a vehicle is somehow involved in business operations, that does not automatically make it a regulated 'commercial motor vehicle'.

Next:  DO I NEED A  (Logbook, medical card, etc)

The answer is:  Depends on state.  IF you think you'll be identified as a CMV, having a medical card is a good thing, even if not required.  Keeping a logbook is terribly critical if you're driving on behalf of a company or business, but if you're driving your private vehicle, on personal or farm circumstances, they'll find it very difficult to prosecute you for hours-of-operation violation.  One of the primary methods of fending off an Hours Of Service attack, is to have good reciepts (ones that cannot identify you as having exceeded hours of service regulations), and of course... having hotel bills.  This is one of the reasons why my company removed all sleepers and installed storage and passenger accomodations in our trucks-  everyone stays in a hotel, every night.

Next:  Don't FARM RULES allow me (xxxx)?

The answer is:  Depends on state.  Iowa rules, for example, allow an individual to operate a vehicle or machine on public roadways that would, in any other circumstance, require a CDL... with the provision that the vehicle is being used for agribusiness purposes, and operating within specified legal limits (axle weight limitations and gross weight limitations, lighting, fire extinguisher, etc) and within 150 air-mile distance from the farm.  Unfortunately, for farmers living on the border of another state, travel into the adjoining state puts that farmer under the adjoining state's rules, which may be different.

Do I need a CDL to drive my (xxx) towing my (xxx).

Answer:  Depends on state.  First and foremost, is the combination REGISTERED or IDENTIFIED for over 26,000lbs?  you'll need a CDL in most states.  IF your tow vehicle and/or trailer uses AIR BRAKES, you'll need a CDL.  If you're transporting passengers for hire, you'll need a CDL.  These are all conditions which essentially all states abide.

Other notes:

In many states, there are exceptions to rules.  For example-  If you're operating a tow vehicle over 10k GVW, you cannot tow a trailer where the tow vehicle and trailer's GVWs exceed 26k without CDL... HOWEVER, if your tow vehicle's GVW is UNDER 10k, you can pull ANY trailer you like (and even exceed 26k) provided your ACTUAL WEIGHT falls under 26k.  (oh, and you haven't exceeded the tow vehicle manufacturer's ratings.

IT IS A GRIEVOUS MISNOMER To think that the average DOT officer does not have a fair idea of your GVW.  Most are very familiar with all common light and medium-duty trucks, and can rapidly look up anything they'd like to know.  They can also look at a trailer, count lug nuts, and determine the axle ratings for a trailer.  They can also identify the differences between passenger, light truck, and trailer tires, and judging by the amount of 'squat', they can determine how heavily that trailer is loaded.

Finally, realize that the DOT, regardless of wether the patrol car says "Commercial Enforcement" or not, has the authority to stop ANY vehicle for a safety concern.  Unlike most other patrol officers, a DOT officer's authority to stop commercially-identified vehicles requires no specific cause.  They can, at will, subject you to a very thorough safety inspection, including crawling under and checking brake lining thickness, emptying your truck to look for any number of things, demanding MSDS sheets for any chemicals you're carrying on board, pulling you onto portable scales, or escorting you to a certified scale at some other location.

Finally, yes, in many cases, the attitude of the officer has a substantial impact on the result.  Having courtesy will usually serve you very well, and in the circumstance that you're doing something not-necessarily commercial, with a vehicle which isn't a 'normal' commercial truck, most reasonable officers will be lenient with the understanding that since you don't do this everyday, you're really not sure what they expect of you.

So try your best.  When in doubt, err on the side of safety, and make sure everything is safe, solid, and secure.

Always remember, Just because you made "several trips" and never had a problem, does not mean everthing you were doing was completely in compliance.

Jamie-  No worries about buying a tractor out-of-state, and getting it to bring home and restore... take you pickup and gooseneck and go get it-  it is personal property, not a commercial haul.  As long as your combination is under 26,000 (and unless it's a Steiger, you're light enough), and you're not overloaded on any axles, you'll be fine.

As far as the lady at the courthouse, your state tags SHOULD be good as specified, as liscense plates and titles are wholly under the control of your local DMV, a DOT officer in some other state can raise an issue, however, it will not stand unless you're in that state for longer than some set length of time (like... 30 days).

If I were you, the only concerns I would have:  1) Air brakes-  if your truck and/or trailer use air-brakes, you'll need a Class A CDL... even if you don't have a trailer... even if you're well under 26,000... air brakes require Class A in every state...  and  2) Weight category:  If your total combined weight RATING is under 26,000 (i.e. 10,000lb GVW truck, and 15,000gvw trailer), there's no reason for concern.  If your combination exercises your state's 30,000 tag by being over 26,000, I would WRITE the DOT offices of the states you intend to cross, to get WRITTEN clarification of what you're allowed.

Don't Email or call on the phone- WRITE... that way, they WRITE BACK... and when you travel, keep photocopies of those letters in your truck... NOT the originals.  If you're cited, then satisfy the officer's requirements, thank them, continue on your way, and keep track of every and all expenses, etc., required to recover from the incident... then hire an experienced attorney fight the citation, not only to exonerate the citation, but to recover your additional effort and expenses.

And a shameless pseudo-plug here:  when you're making a haul, ALWAYS know what you weigh.  An officer equipped with portable scales can slap a fine on you, and you'll have absolutely no defense REGARDLESS of circumstances.  Most certified scales have a guarantee policy that will provide you with some measure of protection in the event that you're tagged as overweight... consider that an insurance policy, and use it as such.

Dave, a Class B CDL air brakes endorsement is optional. Class B is for straight truck.  According to MCE in Ankeny, they add the GVW of the power unit and trailer together to figure the GVW. Under 10K, not commercial. I agree whole heartedly that you should know how much you weigh. I would recommend stopping at a "Cat Scale", usually found at truckstops, and weighing. If the DOT stops you with the idea of you might be overweight, a Cat Scale ticket showing you're legal normally is enough to stop them from getting the portables out.

Ah- Nick- you're right-  for some reason, I was thinking combination.  Iowa also has Class B with air-brake endorsement, but you still need Class A to pull trailers with air brakes.

Yes, Brian- I wasn't going to name the company, so thanks for the 'plug'... you weren't home when I stopped by, otherwise you'd've seen my service truck...  That yellow scale ticket is also an insurance policy- we expect drivers to put our guarantee to work when a problem arises, and while many do, some don't realize the power of that guarantee.




Edited by DaveKamp - 03 Oct 2010 at 8:03pm

I talked to my county clerks office again this week. She said that I'm covered by the KY laws as long as I'm not making profit. She said that I may want to come by and get a copy of the law printed on paper from them just in case I get stopped. A buddy of mine said that he got stopped everytime he left the state until he put a John Deere license plate on the back of his trailer.

Yes brian, it would.  But 90 percent of the guys running out there with big trailers/1 ton trucks are commercial sometimes(yet everyone tries to skirt that fact)   The cost of getting it and maintaining it is small compared to the cost of getting a ticket, or even to travel back to that state/hire lawyer to fight the ticket.  You can argue till your blue in the face how "right" you are with a cop, he can still give you a ticket that you will have to go fight in court. 

I wonder how kosher it would be to put your dot number on a magnet that way only when you really know that your pushing the limits that it gets put on.  When tooling around otherwise you just run without it.