This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Gleaner A/AII/C/CII Cylinder Belt vs. Chain Drive
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 2032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gleaner A/AII/C/CII Cylinder Belt vs. Chain Drive
    Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 11:16am
Almost every A/AII/C/CII combine I see out here in wheat country seems to have the belt drive cylinder setup, which gives you cylinder speeds of 800-1325 RPM. My CII is one of these. I would like to be able to do wheat, milo, oats, and soybeans.

To slow the cylinder speed below 800 RPM, you have to convert to a chain drive. If I did that, I'd probably get the 52 tooth cylinder driven sprocket for 425-715 RPM (soybeans), and the 28 tooth cylinder sprocket because it gives the same 800-1325 RPM range as the belt drive. Then I could just put the belt drive on the shelf as it would require changing the drive sheave/sprocket if I wanted to go back to it, which is a lot harder than just swapping the driven sprocket on the cylinder.

Any drawbacks to the chain drive other than having to lubricate the chain?
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
jiminnd View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Rutland ND
Points: 2240 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jiminnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 11:28am
I don't really have an answer but I changed mine on C2 for sunflower.  Didn't think it was a big issue so I just switched back and forth.  I did wheat and other stuff, sunflower was always last, then just changed back before the next harvest.
1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
Back to Top
AC7060IL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Location: central IL
Points: 3370 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 11:37am
Hi wJohn, Check your pm.
Back to Top
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8302 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 9:57pm
How many acres you cover? Chain drive will run a long time if you keep it lubed up. Replace chain when it's getting worn and save the sprockets.
Back to Top
EricFoster View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 24 Dec 2024
Location: usa
Points: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EricFoster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:38am
Yes, using lubricant can almost double the lifespan of a chain.
Back to Top
ac hunter View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Points: 1003 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:29am
Our old Gleaner E had a chain drive for the cylinder and never caused any problems. Like everyone says, OIL.
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 2032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 31 minutes ago at 10:01pm
Originally posted by jiminnd jiminnd wrote:

I don't really have an answer but I changed mine on C2 for sunflower.  Didn't think it was a big issue so I just switched back and forth.  I did wheat and other stuff, sunflower was always last, then just changed back before the next harvest.

So you don't think it's too bad to change over the drive pulley/sprocket that's behind the variable speed sheave? I should try getting that off first. I just figured it would be easiest to just change the cylinder sprocket back and forth.

What RPM did you run sunflowers at? We don't have much of a market this far south but I'd be curious to try some, as they do seem to grow well here.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 2032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 59 minutes ago at 10:33pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

How many acres you cover? Chain drive will run a long time if you keep it lubed up. Replace chain when it's getting worn and save the sprockets.

I will only have about 20 acres a year for the near future, and maybe double that once I cleanup a couple little old fields that were left to turn into pasture by some past renters. I doubt I'd wear a chain out for a very long time, so there's probably no real advantage to longevity of the belt setup.

Looks like it's about $500 for the parts to convert to chain drive sprocket, chain, and sprockets to cover the two RPM ranges and a different feeder beater sprocket to make up for the slower cylinder speed.


Edited by wjohn - 4 hours 26 minutes ago at 12:06pm
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
AC7060IL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Location: central IL
Points: 3370 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 28 minutes ago at 9:04am
I’ve never owned a C or C2, but what’s to stop a person from going to a combine savage yard(local or far) & purchase a larger cyl pulley/belt off a F/F2,K/G etc??
Do they not all have the same 4 bolt cylinder flange mounting with the same double V drive belt, & flat spring idler arrangement???
Of course, each corresponding drive belt is different lengths per its pulley diameter.
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 2032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 27 minutes ago at 12:05pm
That is a fair question. I don't have access to any Fs so I could check and see if any of those parts would fit. I can dig into the parts books for an F and compare to a CII. Here is what the belt drive setup looks like on a CII. You could go somewhat larger on the cylinder pulley before you got into the tailings auger.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 2032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 9 minutes ago at 12:23pm
I dug out an old F manual I recently got (thanks Den!) and it lists 3 different pulley sizes for the cylinder:
8.5" 1383-907 RPM
13" 908-596 RPM
20" 590-387 RPM

The pulley on my CII measures 16.5-17" or so depending on where you want to guess the effective diameter is for the belt centerline.

So, I can already tell that the Fs had a larger drive pulley diameter - they were doing about the same cylinder RPM with an 8.5" driven pulley that my CII is doing with a ~17" driven pulley. If a 20" pulley from an F would fit I could try it and figure out a new longer belt, but that wouldn't slow down my RPM very much from the existing 17". It would be that or see if the driven pulley from an F would also fit.

Worth a shot if I had a dead F sitting around in a fence row, but otherwise I'd probably be better off with the known working option of the CII chain drive w/ sprocket swaps?
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
AC7060IL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Location: central IL
Points: 3370 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 22 minutes ago at 2:10pm
wJohn, thanks for your photo. From photo I now understand that a C2 has a single groove cylinder drive belt. Was unaware of that. And,,, the C2's pivot shaft's cylinder drive pulley that mounts to the back side of the variable speed sheave assy is larger in diameter 14"? compared to 10.25"OD double groove F/K drive pulley.  So is this cylinder drive pulley a 2 piece with a corresponding 2 piece chain sprocket?  I mean, if not, then a single piece design would require the entire variable speed assy be removed from pivot shaft to change over from belt to chain - right? Or,,, I guess maybe the chain drive sprocket is already/also bolted in there??


Edited by AC7060IL - 2 hours 14 minutes ago at 2:18pm
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 2032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 30 minutes ago at 3:02pm
AC7060IL, I just figured out the F has a two groove pulley drive from looking at the parts catalog - so we are both learning and now on the same page. The CII does indeed have a one piece single groove pulley on the pivot shaft that is probably close to 14" or so in diameter, and the variable speed assembly has to first be removed to replace that pulley or a sprocket (one or the other can be installed at a given time). I don't think I can retrofit the F/K drive onto a CII.

That is why I think if I had to change to a chain drive in order to get any cylinder speeds below 800 RPM, I might as well just get the fast speed cylinder sprocket and then ditch the belt drive altogether. I could then leave the drive sprocket on the pivot shaft behind the variable speed assembly and never have to remove it or the variable speed assembly again. I'd just swap between 28T (fast speeds - same as my current belt drive setup) and ideally a 52T sprocket or similar for slow speeds. Might have to add or remove a chain link or two as well.

However, if I were able to make 800 RPM work for soybeans, chain drive wouldn't be necessary.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8302 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 52 seconds ago at 4:31pm
My A2 did 88A a yer for 19 yrs in corn and soys plus about 10 years will some acres in wheat with a chain. I think I replaced sprockets once. Point is,you won't have an issue with chain drive if you take care of it.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.051 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum