Barge Box Wagon Hoist question....

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   Hi all...I sure hate to ask a foolish question but can't help it on this one. Last spring I purchased a barge bx wagon with a hoist. Have used it alot, but not the hoist. Just got around to getting the hose fixed this week. Last night I hooked it up to my tractor hydraulics. Just lifted it a couple feet, enough to prop it up, grease everything and check out all things underneath. Cylinder looks great and everything looks pretty solid, went to lower the box down for the evening and it wouldn't go. I've never had much to do with a cylinder that has only one hose. Raining hard now so can't try this, but I'm wondering how it works and what I'm missing? Once you raise the hoist do you need to go over center or all the way up or something in order for it to come back down? I have two hydraulic outlets in the rear of my tractor, also tryed hooking to both of them and it didn't help. Can anyone tell me what I'm doiung wrong or what to look for? Thank you...
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mtj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote mtj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Barge Box Wagon Hoist question.... Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 9:36am
	Hi all...I sure hate to ask a foolish question but can't help it on this one. Last spring I purchased a barge bx wagon with a hoist. Have used it alot, but not the hoist. Just got around to getting the hose fixed this week. Last night I hooked it up to my tractor hydraulics. Just lifted it a couple feet, enough to prop it up, grease everything and check out all things underneath. Cylinder looks great and everything looks pretty solid, went to lower the box down for the evening and it wouldn't go. I've never had much to do with a cylinder that has only one hose. Raining hard now so can't try this, but I'm wondering how it works and what I'm missing? Once you raise the hoist do you need to go over center or all the way up or something in order for it to come back down? I have two hydraulic outlets in the rear of my tractor, also tryed hooking to both of them and it didn't help. Can anyone tell me what I'm doiung wrong or what to look for? Thank you...

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john(MI) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9262	Post Options Post Reply Quote john(MI) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 9:45am
	Might be a safety catch on it to release before it will come down. Vent on end of cylinder that doesn't have a hose might be plugged. Be careful working under it while it is raised.

LouSWPA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 24299	Post Options Post Reply Quote LouSWPA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 9:46am
	What are you using to the hydraulics? On tractors such as WD WD-45, you need to have the draft control set correctly. If you are using that type of system, there is another post with a very similiar problem and someone supplied the instructions for the settings. I must repeat what John says about working under it, you probably already know, but I'll say it again....Be carefull! I was having a problem with my WD couple of weeks ago, the implement I had on it would not go down. As I was standing there thinking about it, it just fell like a rock!

mtj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote mtj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 9:49am
	I was wondering if I might have missed a vent or breather on it John, didn't see one on my initial inspection but I still have some dirt to clean off the top of it. Definately being careful, I have it braced up real well when I'm under it. When it quits raining I'll pull her out and raise it all the way up to get a better look. Thank you...

BrettPhillips Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Strasburg, VA Points: 808	Post Options Post Reply Quote BrettPhillips Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 10:27am
	What kind of tractor are you using? Some older tractors had to have an adjustment made to the hydraulic valve in order to go from single acting to double acting cylinders. Some 20 and 30 series JD 2-cylinders are an example, and they will act just the way you describe if they aren't set according to the type of cylinder in use.

mtj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote mtj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 11:29am
	I have a 1999 John Deere 4300 tractor I use with the wagon....

Rawleigh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: White Stone, VA Points: 421	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rawleigh Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 3:32pm
	MTJ: I have a JD 4310 that I use on my 72 Allcrop that has a single acting cylinder with no visible vent. Try switching to the other side of you hydraulic circuit or to the other outlets. That tractor is set up for dual acting hydraulics and the hoses can be very hard to connect and disconnect after you use it with a single acting one. Try shutting the tractor off and then lowering it.

John (C-IL) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 1654	Post Options Post Reply Quote John (C-IL) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 4:30pm
	Also, check the "rabbit" valve setting. It should be just above the couplers on the tractor, it controls the flow rate. There should be a picture of a rabbit and a turtle by the valve lever.

den/southern illinoi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Sparta, Illinoi Points: 2010	Post Options Post Reply Quote den/southern illinoi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 6:17pm
	I'll bet on mismatched coupler on the hose to the tractor. We had the same problem on a wheel disk. D 21 would raise it but would not go down. Could not unhook the hose due to pressure on the line so picked up disk with a forklift and figured out what was wrong. It turns out that when we raised it, the oil would push thru but would not go down. Got new matching couplers and have never had another problem with it. Had the same problem with a single acting ram but don't remember what it was on. New matched couplers and the problem went away. Den

mtj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote mtj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 6:27pm
	Thanks for the suggestions guys... Rawleigh, I did already try unhooking hose from 1st port and hooking up to second port, no success. I thought it was odd that it didn't lower the cylinder, not only that, but it wouldn't lift either being hooked to that second cylinder. If only one port raises the cylinder, and the other doesn't, I'm thinking it may be a valve problem? Also tryed shutting tractor off and lowering it that way using both hydraulic ports, and also unhooked from the hydraulics, neither worked. John--I think the 4310 is quite a bit more advanced and has alot more operator settings. This may have the valve settings, but they're somewhere I can't find them, they aren't by the rear ports. The 2 lines going to the back come from under the operators station....the valve is buried underneath somewhere. Doesn't help that I have a cab on this tractor. Worse comes to worse I may have to take the back right wheel off, and back right fender to get to the valve. First though I'll take the control apart tomorrow and see if that is working properly, but you can see the cabe moving back & forth, so I assume that's ok. I've never had an excuse to use the rear hydraulic ports on this tractor, possible something is going on with the valve. I've also looked the cylinder over very, very carefully, no breather hole that I can find anywhere. I would think there would have to be some type of breather on it somewhere?

mtj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote mtj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 6:32pm
	Den, I'm thinking the coupler is ok, when I had a new hose made, I had a hydraulic place make that, but I picked up the coupler directly from John Deere dealer to make sure that matched with what was on my tractor....I think my neighbor has a hyd log splitter, this weekend I am going to look him up and hook his splitter to my tractor and make sure all my hydraulics, controls and valve is working properly...Thanks!