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1955CA 
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Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Topic: Ignition Opinion
Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 12:58pm |
So I'm about to put an order in to Steiner's because the water pump started leaking out the weep hole in my 1955 CA. So going to order a few other things I need.
Now my question.....what do you all think? Should I just buy new wires, coil and points or should I go Pertronix electronic?
And are any of the wires and coils compatible with both in case I decide to go electronic later on?
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Ed (Ont)
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Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Location: New Lowell, Ont
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Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 2:13pm |
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Are you 6V or 12V? Not that it really matters. Pertronix is good. Points work well too. My WD45 is 6V and points. Starts well and runs well.
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11833
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Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 3:04pm |
Moving to an E.I. is totally up to you. As Ed mentioned, nothing wrong with moving to an E.I. over the points. If you do decide to move to the E.I. its super important that the spark plug wires are carbon core (resistor) wires and not solid core. You also do not need to go with the Pertronix Coil either. There's a rumor running around the internet that you need to go with a Pertronix Coil Not neccessary. These E.I. kits were designed to work with the OEM coils. If you're still on 6VPG, you stick with the 6V Coil. If you moved to 12V, you need a 12V/3.0 Ohm Coil for the 4 cylinder. We have the E.I.'s in stock and also custom build the spark plug wires for each application. Wires are cut and numbered for each cylinder. I can also help ya out with a water pump as well if interested... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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dr p
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Location: new york
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Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 3:10pm |
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steve is more than worth the extra couple of bucks
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den/southern illinoi
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Sparta, Illinoi
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Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 3:12pm |
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I'd go with Steve. If you run into problems with the electrical, you can call him and he will talk you thru it.
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Own 4 wheel 20, 2-5015, 5020 and associated equipment and 2 electric forklifts.
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1955CA
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Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 585
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Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 8:25pm |
Hey guys, thanks. Sorry I didn't give the full details. Mine is converted to 12 volt by a previous owner.
Problem I have is it starts and runs perfect in any weather, but it has a random pop or miss.....more so when hot. When cold you don't notice it. But my plug wires look in pretty poor shape, especially the one going to the coil. So I figure now is the time when I have the hood off to do the water pump, may as well pull the valve cover and check the valve lash and put everything new in the ignition.
Do you notice any improvement in performance with electronic versus a properly tuned points?
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captaindana
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Location: Fort Plain, NY
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 4:57am |
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I third he motion to go with my buddy Steve, he’s worth his weight in GOLD and has the BEST quality parts money can buy.
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Blue Skies and Tail Winds
Dana
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rw
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Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Location: United States
Points: 384
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 5:02am |
When do you hear the random pop? is it at low idle or under load at working speed? I have some popping on my WD caused from exhaust leaks between manifold and head. We have replaced the manifold gaskets a few times over the years and that calms that popping way down.
In good conditions breaker points make all the spark needed and conversion to electronic won't give you a noticeable boost in power. The pertronix needs a minimum voltage to fire. Sometimes, if the battery is low on my WD that is 6VPG, I have to hand crank because the starter lowers the voltage below the threshold of operation for the pertronix.
I like the conversions, I have them on all my gas tractors. The Pertronix gives you the potential for higher voltage out of the coil due to longer dwell time. Dwell time is the period of charge for the primary winding. The performance difference I notice and makes conversion worthwhile is firing a flooded spark plug. Or- When there is moisture from rain or condensation inside or outside the distributor cap. The higher voltage will spark the plug even though some voltage is lost to condensation etc. Ignition timing changes slightly as points wear. You might notice the tractor starts well for longer if you convert. My WD warms up quickly so we say it is not cold natured and it was this way before the pertronix. My IH tractors are better in this regard since the pertronix were added.
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 7:08am |
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We've had a run on bad capacitors and breaker points. Good in years gone by but most of these offshore produced ignition parts are marginal at best. Seemingly doesn't matter who's name is on the package. Some are good out of the box, some not. Some run well, some will run a few minutes and die. Roulette wheel it seems with these older ignition systems any longer.
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That's All Folks!
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1955CA
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Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 7:34am |
 Codger wrote:
We've had a run on bad capacitors and breaker points. Good in years gone by but most of these offshore produced ignition parts are marginal at best. Seemingly doesn't matter who's name is on the package. Some are good out of the box, some not. Some run well, some will run a few minutes and die. Roulette wheel it seems with these older ignition systems any longer.
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Another reason I'm considering going electronic.
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1955CA
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 585
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 7:37am |
rw wrote:
When do you hear the random pop? is it at low idle or under load at working speed?I have some popping on my WD caused from exhaust leaks between manifold and head. We have replaced the manifold gaskets a few times over the years and that calms that popping way down.
In good conditions breaker points make all the spark needed and conversion to electronic won't give you a noticeable boost in power. The pertronix needs a minimum voltage to fire. Sometimes, if the battery is low on my WD that is 6VPG, I have to hand crank because the starter lowers the voltage below the threshold of operation for the pertronix.
I like the conversions, I have them on all my gas tractors. The Pertronix gives you the potential for higher voltage out of the coil due to longer dwell time. Dwell time is the period of charge for the primary winding. The performance difference I notice and makes conversion worthwhile is firing a flooded spark plug. Or- When there is moisture from rain or condensation inside or outside the distributor cap. The higher voltage will spark the plug even though some voltage is lost to condensation etc. Ignition timing changes slightly as points wear. You might notice the tractor starts well for longer if you convert. My WD warms up quickly so we say it is not cold natured and it was this way before the pertronix. My IH tractors are better in this regard since the pertronix were added.
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More so the higher the RPM. Don't matter if under load or not. No exhaust leaks. Sometimes when cold and dry out it runs smooth. But once hot, or if it's damp it will start doing it.
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WF owner
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 7:57am |
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Have you tried running the engine in the dark? I had one tractor that ran good but had a random miss. One night I started it after dark and it had blue sparks everywhere. A new ditributor cap and wires made a big difference in the way it ran.
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1955CA
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 8:35am |
WF owner wrote:
Have you tried running the engine in the dark? I had one tractor that ran good but had a random miss. One night I started it after dark and it had blue sparks everywhere. A new ditributor cap and wires made a big difference in the way it ran. |
No, but good idea. I know the plug wires look pretty shabby.
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Codger
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 9:12am |
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Squirt bottle and water applied as the engine runs can reveal a lot also.
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That's All Folks!
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jvin248
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 7:11pm |
.
I upgrade to 12v when parts need to be replaced. Easier to get LED lights and bright light units so you can actually see when farming at night.
Everything else in the fleet is 12v so jumping and charging is all the same.
... Sort of on the fun side, how durable is a points system vs electronic after an EMP discharge? All the prepper buddies are banking on points in old pickups to still working when chased by the zombie hordes. Big benefits if you've got a running old tractor when all others are down.
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1955CA
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 9:02pm |
Thanks for the advice everyone. Been messaging with Steve as per your recommendations, and I'll be a new customer tomorrow!
Steiner has been super good with me too, even with technical help, so they'll still get my business for my other brand tractors.
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JoeM(GA)
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 10:11pm |
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Steve’s the best!, you won’t be disappointed by anything he sells!
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Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's,
Ford 345C TLB
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1955CA
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 10:20pm |
Well I trust you all, so glad when I can support fellow members.
Lots of good people on this site that have already helped me with parts and tech advice.
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1955CA
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Posted: 12 Feb 2024 at 8:12am |
jvin248 wrote:
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I upgrade to 12v when parts need to be replaced. Easier to get LED lights and bright light units so you can actually see when farming at night.
Everything else in the fleet is 12v so jumping and charging is all the same.
... Sort of on the fun side, how durable is a points system vs electronic after an EMP discharge? All the prepper buddies are banking on points in old pickups to still working when chased by the zombie hordes. Big benefits if you've got a running old tractor when all others are down.
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No worries there. When the apocalypse comes I want to be the first to go. Who wants to come out of a shelter into a poisoned crap world? LOL I'm lucky, when the war comes I get to go fast because I'm at ground zero. I live beside the locks between Lake Superior and Huron, a steel mill, a gold mine and a hydro electric damn, LOL
Edited by 1955CA - 12 Feb 2024 at 8:15am
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Codger
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Posted: 12 Feb 2024 at 9:16am |
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Whatever you do have a look at the distributor shaft and bushings as these are wear items that are seldom addressed till the engine won't run correctly. That shaft has to remain centered as it drives both the points/dwell, and spark gap between the rotor tip and distributor cap. Both the shaft, and bushings wear and that shaft will woller around and this will cause erratic firing that will have you scratching yourself trying to find. Doesn't matter is point or magnetic pulse ignition, (Pertronix) the result is the same as they rely upon that shaft being centered for accurate timing.
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That's All Folks!
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1955CA
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Posted: 12 Feb 2024 at 10:13am |
Codger wrote:
Whatever you do have a look at the distributor shaft and bushings as these are wear items that are seldom addressed till the engine won't run correctly. That shaft has to remain centered as it drives both the points/dwell, and spark gap between the rotor tip and distributor cap. Both the shaft, and bushings wear and that shaft will woller around and this will cause erratic firing that will have you scratching yourself trying to find. Doesn't matter is point or magnetic pulse ignition, (Pertronix) the result is the same as they rely upon that shaft being centered for accurate timing.
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Yes, I'll make sure I check that also.
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1955CA
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Posted: 12 Feb 2024 at 9:36pm |
Was good talking to you today Steve! And a pleasure doing business with you.
Another step forward making the old CA better. I'll finally be able to take her to the antique tractor parades this summer along with the Ford.
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Phil48ACWC
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Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 6:27am |
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Any EI requires a steady voltage supply without spikes upward or downward. 12V alternators with built in solid state regulators do a great job of steady voltage regulation. I run a volt gauge and it stays between 14.1 and 14.6 volts while running. Good electrical connections and good grounds are a must.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 6:28pm |
Codger beat me to it- pop the distributor cap off, and wiggle that rotor shaft.
Earlier note about vacuum leak- there's a segment of the manifold assembly where the hot (exhaust) side conducts through to the cold (intake) side. This is intentional engineering on Allis's engine wizards (they were BUDA guys, right?) Intake air chills rapidly when passing from the venturi, out the divergent zone past the throttle. The fuel coming through the venturi is not particularly atomized, and because of the low temperature caused by that divergent zone [Boyle's Law, or Combined Gas Law (P*V)/T ] means that fuel will generally stay in droplet form unless the ambient temperature rises high enough to exceed the vapor pressure of the fuel... fast enough... to mix with air before entering the combustion chamber.
The problem with having that conduction point, is that it's cold on one side, hot on the other, and gets eroded by exhaust on one side, corroded by oxygen and moisture on the other... so it CAN form a little crack... which is tight when cold, and opens up a bit when hot.
I don't think that's your problem, you probably have worn distributor shaft bushings, weak points spring, bad condenser... but it's a good thing to keep in mind.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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BrianC
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Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 8:24pm |
Worn bushing will cause havoc (I know, got taught that lesson). Problem with the advance mechanism. The drive gears making that right angle turn from governor shaft to distributor shaft. I think we had a thread on that about 2 years ago.
I think put a timing light on it and looking for mark jumping around could be illuminating.
As for Pertronix, after good clean 13.6-14.8volts, using resistor wires, the only outstanding problem I recall was leaving the key on with engine off. The module could overheat. Maybe the ignitor II fixed that? Or they have improved the original? Or still an issue? I think I would do conversion.
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1955CA
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 7:40am |
Just got my goodies thanks to Steve at B&B Custom Circuits! Great guy to deal with!! New water pump, all new hoses and steel pipes, and electronic ignition.
Hopefully get some time after next week to start working on her again.  |
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ACinSC
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 7:55am |
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Yeah Steve is a good guy. Helped me with my D 15 several times. Good luck
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 4:42pm |
Thank you Shawn for your business!! We greatly appreciate it!! You need help with anything, you make sure you email me or give a call. I'll be more than happy to help ya out and walk ya through anything...  Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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