Gleaner combines engines/tractor engines

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   Seldom, if ever, are there any Gleaner combine DIESEL engines that will drop right in an A-C tractor without changes being made. A good deal of the time the changes are far more complex than most realize. Differences between turbo-charged and non-turbo engines oiling systems is usually the first thing, with oil pan shapes/capacities, and oil pump configurations being of several different types. Then, there are oil coolers and oil passage way plugs and springs. Newer blocks may have piston cooling and some older ones don't. Having a 1973 tractor and a 1973 combine engine does help somewhat, but just because they are the same age doesn't mean they will be the same. The next difference will be the fact that ZERO combine engines have a place for a hydraulic pump drive on the left front corner !!  It isn't there because combines NEVER had the need for it. To changeover a combine engine using your tractor engines front plate and front cover components is more work than just overhauling your tractor engine!!  Water pump height and connections are sometimes different, so you have to use tractor parts for tractor applications. Injection pump settings and electric or manual shut-offs and throttle lever positions would be next on the list.  How the front of the engine is attached to the chassis or side frames has more than one design. The rear plate of the engine has more than one design. The flywheels are usually different. Then, there are starters, alternator brackets and turbo-chargers. I refer back to the first sentence: seldom, if ever, are there any Gleaner DIESEL combine engines that will drop right in an A-C tractor without changes being made. Same theory would go for a gen-set engine !!!!!!!!

Edited by DrAllis - 07 Dec 2022 at 6:26am

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20534	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Gleaner combines engines/tractor engines Posted: 06 Dec 2022 at 9:44pm
	Seldom, if ever, are there any Gleaner combine DIESEL engines that will drop right in an A-C tractor without changes being made. A good deal of the time the changes are far more complex than most realize. Differences between turbo-charged and non-turbo engines oiling systems is usually the first thing, with oil pan shapes/capacities, and oil pump configurations being of several different types. Then, there are oil coolers and oil passage way plugs and springs. Newer blocks may have piston cooling and some older ones don't. Having a 1973 tractor and a 1973 combine engine does help somewhat, but just because they are the same age doesn't mean they will be the same. The next difference will be the fact that ZERO combine engines have a place for a hydraulic pump drive on the left front corner !! It isn't there because combines NEVER had the need for it. To changeover a combine engine using your tractor engines front plate and front cover components is more work than just overhauling your tractor engine!! Water pump height and connections are sometimes different, so you have to use tractor parts for tractor applications. Injection pump settings and electric or manual shut-offs and throttle lever positions would be next on the list. How the front of the engine is attached to the chassis or side frames has more than one design. The rear plate of the engine has more than one design. The flywheels are usually different. Then, there are starters, alternator brackets and turbo-chargers. I refer back to the first sentence: seldom, if ever, are there any Gleaner DIESEL combine engines that will drop right in an A-C tractor without changes being made. Same theory would go for a gen-set engine !!!!!!!! Edited by DrAllis - 07 Dec 2022 at 6:26am

Sponsored Links

DaveKamp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5754	Post Options Post Reply Quote DaveKamp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 9:10am
	Thanks for putting all the notes here. I know I've posted it before elsewhere, but since... There is a significant difference between how governance works on tractors, vs. combines and generators. Tractors are VARIABLE in governance, meaning, you choose what speed you want the prime mover to run, and the governor attempts to hold it at that point. Combines, generators, and USUALLY dedicated power units (like pumps, drill rigs, etc) are FIXED in governance, meaning the speed the unit is set to operate, is NOT variable. The system they're integrated to is designed to run at ONE SPEED, so the governor's entire calibration, is at that point. SOME power units are 'FIXED' but with an "IDLE" position. A combine is an excellent example of this- it has the ability to be idled down while not working, otherwise, it is at governed speed. Drilling rigs and air compressors will, Welding systems frequently do, synchronous generators won't have this. The performance difference is all about sensitivity and load response- a fixed speed governor is mechanically optimized to maintain a critical speed. An adjustable-speed governor, by virtue of simple physics, can NOT be as accurate in it's response.
	Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20534	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 9:40am
	On the Gleaner/Allis diesel engine line-up, all the fuel injection systems have a variable governor. Many modern/current build combines do not. All of Gleaner gasoline powered models (A-C or GM) were all governor controlled at high-idle speed only.

Bijou605 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 06 Nov 2023 Location: 57301 Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bijou605 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 2023 at 1:13pm
	I just swapped out an M2 engine into a 545B lots of work, I used the 545B injection system pump and injectors but now have compression leaking around the injectors, both engines had the copper injector sleeves in the do I need copper washers under the injector tips both parts books do not show anyu

im4racin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 936	Post Options Post Reply Quote im4racin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2023 at 6:55am
	I disagree that combines never needed it. I have yet to see an allis produced combine without a hyd pump. It would have been simpler and cheaper to use common parts and hang the pump on the engine. The belt drive pump wouldn't have made it through my prototype stall! Edited by im4racin - 11 Nov 2023 at 6:56am

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20534	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2023 at 10:04pm
	Combines from many years ago needed a hydraulic system, yes. They were also offered with gasoline and diesel engines in the same chassis combine. This oft times meant the two different fuel engines weren't even the same brand or the same family. By using a belt driven hydraulic pump there was more commonality between combine chassis (gas vs diesel). It simply made life easier the way they did it. So, yes the diesel engine had no need for a hydraulic pump drive because the combine engineers didn't want there to be a drive on the engine, which raised the cost of each diesel engine.