D-12 Experts

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   Through the purchase of a new to me D-12, I have started doing some research concerning correct factory color. Here is the beginning of my confusion: My tractor is serial No. 2322. I have known of this tractors ownership from in the early 70"s if not as far back as the 60"s. When I read the Terry Dean handbook, it states that after serial No. 1950, the color changes to Persion Orange#2, with cream grill and bars. OK, When I see most tractors with that color scheme, they have a cream steering wheel. This on has a black steering wheel, that appears to be original. While water blasting, I find traces of Persion Orange#1. It has been repainted in Persion #2, so what is the deal, did no one tell this tractor that it was supposed to be Persion Orange#2 originally?  Or is there a chance that their data is off? I have read the same serial no. breakdown in one of Norm Swinfords books, but I realize that data from one book can be borrowed to another book. Can someone shed some light on this?

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David Maddux Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Points: 2524	Post Options Post Reply Quote David Maddux Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: D-12 Experts Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 8:36am
	Through the purchase of a new to me D-12, I have started doing some research concerning correct factory color. Here is the beginning of my confusion: My tractor is serial No. 2322. I have known of this tractors ownership from in the early 70"s if not as far back as the 60"s. When I read the Terry Dean handbook, it states that after serial No. 1950, the color changes to Persion Orange#2, with cream grill and bars. OK, When I see most tractors with that color scheme, they have a cream steering wheel. This on has a black steering wheel, that appears to be original. While water blasting, I find traces of Persion Orange#1. It has been repainted in Persion #2, so what is the deal, did no one tell this tractor that it was supposed to be Persion Orange#2 originally? Or is there a chance that their data is off? I have read the same serial no. breakdown in one of Norm Swinfords books, but I realize that data from one book can be borrowed to another book. Can someone shed some light on this?

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PaulB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4740	Post Options Post Reply Quote PaulB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 8:45am
	What color does Norm Swinford's book say it should be? If I'm correct, he was an ALLIS CHALMERS Blockman or at least directly employed by ALLIS in some way. Many of the books I've read have conflicting information with Norm's book, whether this is due to a clerical error or just hearsay information, I can't say. If you wish to keep the Correct Police satisfied, I'd always defer to whatever information I found in Norm Swinfords's books.
	If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY

tbran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3296	Post Options Post Reply Quote tbran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 10:07am
	Norm Swinford spent a career with AC and had a passionate love for his company. Thus the history book in it. He was a marketing manager of the highest order. He followed Walt Buescher who wrote PLOW PEDDLER - a book on AC people. Both were top notch. Norm was in charge of the EXPO circuit with the EXPO gals - the first to use women in marketing in force.
	When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20520	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 10:44am
	If you see signs of PO#1 on the castings, the rear wheel centers and front wheel centers should also be PO#1.

steve(ill) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81238	Post Options Post Reply Quote steve(ill) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 12:33pm
	They were building aboaut 800 D12 per year at that time. or about 66 per month... Your sn and the "new paint" serial number are about 5 months apart ... that would appear to be quite some time to "loose" a tractor at the factory, or some type of mixup ??
	Like them all, but love the "B"s.

Gary Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Peterborough,On Points: 5391	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gary Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 8:11pm
	I don't believe Allis made the change to Persian Orange #2 at the beginning of 1960 Production, Serial 1950 for both. I have always thought that the change to Persian 2 was part of the major upgrade to the Series II, part way through 1961 Production. Some of those changes included: - from the CA style hydraulic to the new Rear Pump - Live Hydraulic - 149 Engine - Hood Nameplates - cream wheels - cream Steering Wheel - 12 volt electrical Seeing traces of the old Persian 1 underneath the newer Persian 2 would be convincing the Tractor has been repainted. Gary .................................................................. Here is a picture of an early D-10, still in it's work clothes. Serial Number would be later than 2266, the start of the revised, hinged Seat Support. Can't explain the faded Series II Decal though. https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing/for-sale/225361157/allis-chalmers-d10-less-than-40-hp-tractors ............................................................................... Picture of 1961 D-10 Ser. 2949 https://www.marketbook.ca/listing/auction-results/227976199/1962-allis-chalmers-d10-less-than-40-hp-tractors ........................................................ Picture of 1963 D-10 Ser. 7382 Series II https://www.marketbook.ca/listing/auction-results/218947193/1963-allis-chalmers-d10-less-than-40-hp-tractors Edited by Gary - 09 Oct 2024 at 7:45am

Charlie175 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6358	Post Options Post Reply Quote Charlie175 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Oct 2024 at 5:47am
	Gary, that D10 has the metal name plate and that didn't start till Series 2 came out. Might have different sheet metal on it if it is truly a early serial. The paint reminds me of the industrial colors used.
	Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD

Gary Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Peterborough,On Points: 5391	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gary Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Oct 2024 at 9:54am
	Yes Charlie, I agree. Closer inspection would indicate a Ser. II The metal nameplates, the Series II Decals, the cream coloured Steering Wheel spokes, the Persian 2 rear wheels. Wish there was a closer R/H picture showing the 2 hydraulic levers and the live PTO Lever. That would confirm Ser. II The different exterior colour was probably a Federal Gov't requirement. Gary