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dfwallis 
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023
Location: DFW
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 Topic: CA Hydraulic Pump Replacement Option
Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 9:23pm |
It would be quite easy to design a bolt-on gear driven hydraulic pump to replace the original. A plate and some plumbing driven just as the belt pulley (of course with the disadvantage of being still connected to PTO running requirement). Not so easy to duplicate the hold valve and synchronized control of the hydraulic cylinders and the timing/delay circuit (all doable). But with the advantage of everything being routed externally, so you have more options for creating your control/spool system. Not that I'm going to do this (I'm about tapped out), but has anything like this ever been done? Or only front end pulley, distributor driven or pto/belt driventhe only thing you've seen? I think there's actually enough room in the housing to implement a separate (manual or electric) PTO clutch. Kind of the reverse of current, hydraulic pump must be on for PTO to work. There's actually some quite compact, robust category 1 PTO clutches available.
Just a discussion topic, theorizing, no need for meanness.
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1952 CA13092
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 9:44pm |
someone posted this photo a couple years back.. nice clean install....
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 5:45am |
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Nothing wrong with that. And it's live !!
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dfwallis
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 7:07am |
 steve(ill) wrote:
someone posted this photo a couple years back.. nice clean install....
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Yes I've seen that. Looks good, but when I suggested doing that to my generator rebuilder he threw a fit. Only if you run a separate dedicated belt. Too much stress on the gen bearings. I didn't see it possible to fit a double pulley on the crankshaft. I had already bought a double pulley for the generator for him to install.
Edited by dfwallis - 09 Oct 2024 at 9:19am
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1952 CA13092
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 7:25am |
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So the fan belt pulls the gen one way and the hyd pump pulls it the other way......looks like an equal pull. If you've ever been around an AC 200 tractor, it had two fan belts on the left (pull) side powering a 7 blade fan at 2400 engine RPM. We never had a problem with alternator bearings. How many hours is a B-C-CA tractor ever going to get at full throttle all day long ??? not many.
Edited by DrAllis - 09 Oct 2024 at 7:57am
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Les Kerf
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Location: Idaho
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 8:48am |
dfwallis wrote:
... when I suggested doing that to my generator rebuilder he threw a fit... Too much stress on the gen bearing s. |
They make new bearings every day  As Dr. Allis pointed out, this arrangement actually reduces the load on the bearings.
dfwallis wrote:
.... I had already bought a double pulley for the generator for him to install. |
Sounds like it's time to find someone else to do the work.
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dfwallis
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 9:18am |
DrAllis wrote:
So the fan belt pulls the gen one way and the hyd pump pulls it the other way......looks like an equal pull. If you've ever been around an AC 200 tractor, it had two fan belts on the left (pull) side powering a 7 blade fan at 2400 engine RPM. We never had a problem with alternator bearings. How many hours is a B-C-CA tractor ever going to get at full throttle all day long ??? not many. |
I doubt its as bad as he said (especially since he replaced the front bearing with ball bearings, but the rear is still a sleeve bearing), but definitely not going to be an equal pull. The geometry doesn't work plus the HP (belt tension) required for a decent pump vs the generator is likely to be quite a mismatch (done properly). But there are other reasons not to like that particular arrangement. For one, it makes it nearly impossible to use the cultivator implements. Would be really cumbersome to have to dismantle that hydraulic arrangement (as shown) to install the cultivators. My weight rack design will also interfere, but at least it's really easy to remove.
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1952 CA13092
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dfwallis
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 9:19am |
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1952 CA13092
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 12:42pm |
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yea... depends on what you want... If the Cultivator and brackets are the important part, then keep the pump in the back... If your needing rear hydraulic power, then the pump up front is a good setup... The alternator with ball bearings is a better layout than trying to do it with an older generator.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 09 Oct 2024 at 6:11pm |
dfwallis wrote:
...but definitely not going to be an equal pull. The geometry doesn't work |
Agreed, not equal, but still significantly reduced. The actual amount of reduction will be an amount based on the tangent difference, which I will not guess at because I don't have actual measurements and it really is a moot point. The water pump bearings will certainly have more load.
dfwallis wrote:
...it makes it nearly impossible to use the cultivator implements... |
I missed that point completely  My Model C has a front hydraulic pump drive on a modified crankshaft pulley that works quite well, it was done by a previous owner. Since I am unfamiliar with cultivator mounts I suppose it could be in the way but I am not sure. The pump bolts to the front cultivator mounts.
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