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wkpoor 
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Location: Amanda, OH
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 Topic: Copyright Infringment
Posted: 24 Jun 2010 at 8:06pm |
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I'm looking into having a sign magnet made for the side of my white panel van for use at shows. What if anything will I be infringing on by using the Allis diamond shaped Logo and another that says ALLIS-CHALMERS in the style font that is typical.
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41572
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Posted: 24 Jun 2010 at 8:11pm |
Seen a panel-van (pre 1964) at Back to 50's here in MN with AC on both sides and Persian Orange in color. when asking the owner he said he has been to many shows and lot of people have seen it.
Did take picture of him and van but seems to have deleted it off my camera.
He mentioned a few people on this form have talked to him but he is not a member here.
Edited by Coke-in-MN - 24 Jun 2010 at 8:12pm
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22823
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Posted: 24 Jun 2010 at 8:13pm |
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It seems like anybody and everybody copies that logo. I don't know if Allis Chalmers energy holds any rights to it or not. You could ask permission from ACE or beg for forgiveness if anybody complains.
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firebrick43
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Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Warren County
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 11:06am |
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Logo's are copyrighted which does expire,but more importantly they are Registered Trademarks, which is typically the little R with a circle around it down in the corner. They do not expire but can be considered abandoned if not in use for a long time and there is no intent for reuse by they company(I am not a lawyer so don't ask me "HOW") I would say the Diamond logo is not going to get you in trouble, as long as your a collector and not DBA Allis Chalmers. They newer logo might as they are making garden tractors under that one. But remember, most companies want their logo out there, and as long as you not trying to sell or DBA under that logo its free advertisement for them. I wouldn't advise on trying to sell the logos on a large scale however.
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Lonn
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Location: Назарово,Russia
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 1:09pm |
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Our neighbor wanted to paint their silo like a Miller can and wrote Miller for permission and a blueprint. This silo is a couple miles off the main road but Miller wouldn't give them permission.
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wkpoor
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Location: Amanda, OH
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 1:24pm |
 firebrick43 wrote:
Logo's are copyrighted which does expire,but more importantly they are Registered Trademarks, which is typically the little R with a circle around it down in the corner. They do not expire but can be considered abandoned if not in use for a long time and there is no intent for reuse by they company(I am not a lawyer so don't ask me "HOW") I would say the Diamond logo is not going to get you in trouble, as long as your a collector and not DBA Allis Chalmers. They newer logo might as they are making garden tractors under that one. But remember, most companies want their logo out there, and as long as you not trying to sell or DBA under that logo its free advertisement for them. I wouldn't advise on trying to sell the logos on a large scale however.
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That pretty much what some one else told me recently. So unless the price quote for the magnets is more than I can do I'll have a white panel van with the diamond on the front doors and the ALLIS-CHALMERS on the sides.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 4:04pm |
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You might ask Cheri of The Allis Connection. They have lots of stuff for sale with both the diamond and triangle logos at shows. I remember seeing someone several years ago at Hutchinson MN was making some really nice leather belts with tractor names/logos on them. If I remember correctly, they had to stop because John Deere found out about him and demanded a significant fee per item if he continued, or promised legal action for something like copyright infringment.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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bigfish_Oh
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 6:30pm |
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JD was 10% on their toys(1990). Now, they really don't want any little guys money, even after the admit the quality is better than others they have licensed. If you are ever contracting and have an agreement, get it signed asap before the word spreads of your item or someone retires that said go ahead.
IH has threatened to go after people for repainting ertl and scales models and reselling
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Cheri IL.
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 6:44pm |
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The Allis Connection has been selling large magnetic signs with the logos on them for years. We have had many Agco big shots at our tables at the Farm Progress shows and have never had a word said against the stuff the club sells. I think the signs are 12x12. Cheri 309-887-4719
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Dale H. ECIL
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 9:59pm |
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I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble for reproducing anything AC. Several years ago I was able to buy the original parts and operator manuals for all the green AC tractors. I got the # of the lawyer for Agco from Nan Jones, called him, he gave me written permission to reprint and sell them.
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Allis Chalmers Museum, Paris, Il.http:// www.allischalmersmuseum.com 217-275-3428
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 10:01pm |
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That's interesting Cheri. I wondered if T.A.C. had "written permission" to use the A-C logo. I wish I'd bought a few signs and such, but I'm still working on a D17D fixing everything front to rear. Got the last of the little parts bought from the vendors there at Amana. I think next year I might pull the camper up there too.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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michaelwis
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 10:12pm |
Lonn wrote:
Our neighbor wanted to paint their silo like a Miller can and wrote Miller for permission and a blueprint. This silo is a couple miles off the main road but Miller wouldn't give them permission. |
see thats where they went wrong .. should a been a spotted cow ...
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WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer
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JohnCO
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 12:25am |
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A local brewery in Longmont, Co bought a restaurant building on the site of a farm with the silo still standing. They had it painted like their beer can "Dales Pale Ale" It's right on the edge of town on a state highway. Most people like it. Their parking lot is always full so the food must be as good as their beer.
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 8:02am |
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Deere is extremely picky. One local place wouldn't print my photo of my modified Deere tractor on one T shirt.
Gerald J.
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JimD
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 8:55am |
I'll have to basically agree with what's posted here. I did a lot of research on the Allis logo since we put it on our website and our business cards. When we very first started the business, we had a JD logo on our website, and was warned from some other vendors to get it removed as they had recieved Cease and Desist letters.
Allis only copyrighted a couple of their logos, and the diamond was not one of them. Additionally, because they are aware of so many already reproducing their logo, and have not enforced to this point, they have gone beyond what is known as the "Slippery slope" point of no return.
However, remember that cival lawsuits are easily filed wether you expect to win or not. And the cost of defending is not free. "You plays the game, you takes your chances."
JimD
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 9:19am |
JimD wrote:
.....However, remember that cival lawsuits are easily filed wether you expect to win or not. And the cost of defending is not free. "You plays the game, you takes your chances."
JimD |
Truer words never spoken. In the USA, once a lawsuit is filed, you both have lost already. Only the lawyers win.
I know this from personal experience. 9 years, $15,000 later, and at least 2 more years and $5,000 minimum to find out what the end result is. Maybe I will be vindicated, or perhaps I will have to pay $1. Either way, the costs are mine.
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 9:31am |
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I purchased a hat and shirt from the guy with the embroidery machine at the GOTO in GRAY Tenn. He said that he was licenced or had permission from both Case IH for IH things and Allis-Chalmers Energy Inc. for the A-C logos. Apparently Agco does not own the rights to all things Allis-Chalmers. The Allis-Chalmers corporation never died and lives on as Allis-Chalmers Energy. It had value for all the tax losses that could be carried forward.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Dean(IA)
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 10:12am |
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When The Allis Connection was first formed, I was on the board and contacted
Allis-Chalmers Energy about use of names, model names or numbers and logos.
The person in ACE's legal department to whom I was directed, didn't think we
needed formal approval, since ACE is not in the farm equipment business. The new
form of the logo with Allis-Chalmers Energy printed underneath may, perhaps, be viewed
differently, however. HTH
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tom (OH)
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 4:06pm |
I contacted them about 12 years ago about having mud flaps made with AC diamond and thhing was need, just do it.
Tom
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EPALLIS
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 10:12pm |
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The Allis-Chalmers Energy Team is a great group of people. I've talked to a couple of them on different occassions and they have an energy company to run, but always have time for people passionate about the brand and listen to the old stories. Great people to work and talk to!
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