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internal or external resistor in coil? |
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 8:50pm |
Series II D 17 switched to 12 volt I need new coil how do I tell if I need internal or external?
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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I forgot to add resistor, internal or external does it matter?
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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would spark plugs have to be resistor or non resistor to match coil?
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Denis in MI
Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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If you have a resistor in line you do not need a resistor coil, and you do not need resistor plugs that I am aware of, someone else will know for sure but i think i am right
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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the term resistor in line ,what am I looking for. My setup, switch to solenoid ,to negative on coil pos to dist.
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Denis in MI
Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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most are a porcelin box that will be on the hot side of the coil were the power comes in to the coil |
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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I must have built in resistor, no box of any kind.
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firebrick43
Orange Level Joined: 10 Dec 2009 Location: Warren County Points: 592 |
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All 12v systems need a resistor. If not the voltages are to high and will burn the coil up. If you have a 6 volt coil, you need to add a balast resistor, available from NAPA. If you have a coil labeled for 12v use it will have a resistor built into the coil itself.
Resistor spark plugs or resistor plug wires have nothing to do with a tractor, their more for radio interference suppression on autos. If you switched to a 12volt negative ground then it should go from the switch, to the positive coil terminal, then from the negative coil terminal to the distributor |
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firebrick43
Orange Level Joined: 10 Dec 2009 Location: Warren County Points: 592 |
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Be careful, the resistors can be hidden up out of sight, under the gas tank behind the side panels. Trace all wires.
Unhook all the wires from the from the coil and test the resistance, a 12v coil with a built in resistor will measure somewhere around 3 ohms across the terminals. A 6v coil without a resistor will measure somewhere around 1.5 ohms. If its 0 ohms or infinite ohms the coil is junk. |
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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How do you know if it is neg or pos ground system. I am no good with electrical stuff.
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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I gutted all the 6v stuff volt reg ,etc. All new wiring and didnt find any external resistor when doing so. |
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firebrick43
Orange Level Joined: 10 Dec 2009 Location: Warren County Points: 592 |
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If there is no external resister then use a multimeter to check the resistance(ohms) as shown earlier.
a negative ground system will have the negative post cable go to ground(the tractor frame) and the positive cable will go to the starter. A positive ground system should be the oppisite, but most 12v systems are negative Edited by firebrick43 - 12 Feb 2010 at 10:27pm |
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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yes it is neg ground thanks.
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Bill Deppe/AC Salvag
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Maquoketa, Iowa Points: 972 |
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Weren't all D17's already 12V? Are you converting from generator to alternator?
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508 |
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The way to know for sure on weather or not you need a ballast resistor is measure the resistance of the coil primary circuit. 1.5 ohms would be for use with 6V. Adding a ballast resistor to bring total resistance up to 3 to 4 ohms will make your points live. A coil with 3 to 4 ohms primary resistance would not need a ballast resistor.
You need a good accurate meter to measure resistance. Also, don't forget to Zero the meter. Cheap meters many times will not show 0 when the leads are touched together. Whatever the meter reads with the leads touched together must be added to the reading taken on the part you're testing. In the past, some of the auto makes used a "resistance wire" to feed the coil. I don't think A-C ever did that though. If it were me, I would switch to one of those Pertronix Ignitor modules and Flamethrower coil. Then I would open the plug gaps to .045 to take advantage of the increased available ignition voltage. My CA and Oliver 60 have never started so easily or run so smoothly since I did that. |
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11791 |
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Not sure what you have there, but, not all 12V systems use a resistor. The GM HEI is one system that does not. When it comes to coils, I always try to persuade my customers to run a coil with an internal resistor. Main reason why is Mother Nature plays havoc with external resistors with moisture. External resistors cause engine misses, hard starting, and other running issues. The external resistors didn't work under the hood of 60's automobiles, (especially on rainy days) they sure as heck don't work well hanging out in the elements on a Tractor. Your system should have been 12V Positive Ground with Generator accompanied by an external Voltage regulator. If you're upgrading to an Alternator, you'll want to change over to Negative ground, and use the simple "SI" series Alternator to do the charging chores. This has a built-in regulator, so the external regulator can be put aside or disgarded. The D17's wiring will suffice for a 12V conversion providing its in GOOD condition. In the "D" series wiring systems in general, AC used a "stacking" method of utilizing mulitple circuits off of the same Ignition terminal. It worked, but as the systems aged, the stacking causes more resistance in certain area's of those systems, as well as the light load Ignition switches that were used, and electrical failures were not uncommon either downstream or at the Ignition switch. If a new wiring system is out of your budget, make sure the OEM wiring is in good shape first, and replace anything that doesn't look good or has the wire jacket cracking or peeling off from age. I offer an upgraded Ignition switch which incorporates a plug rather than a pile of female connectors which are used to "stack" circuitry. This plug design eliminates the stacking, and makes a much cleaner and better operating wiring system at the back of the dash panel where it can get like spaghetti. Hence, the problems that occured over the years with the "D" series wiring. If you would like some help in figuring out which way to go, just give me a call. Be happy to help you out as I did with a lot of the forum members over the years here. Wiring information and guidance doesn't cost you a dime....
Steve@B&B (973) 632-5596 |
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11791 |
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Here is a rear view of a D17 dash with my upgraded Ignition switch and mated plug. This eliminates much of the circuit stacking that AC did originally. This is a system I just built for one of our customer's. Steve@B&B
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boscoe
Silver Level Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: ND Points: 165 |
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I rewired the tractor with new wire, The old wire was all cracked and corroded,it is 12 volt neg ground with altinator. The volt reg i took off tractor, I used plastic flex tubing to act like harness for all wires and tie strapped them up. My coil, on the inside is cracked and does not give good contact, (after many years of being out in the adverse weather) so its time for a new one. Good Idea on the switch, keeps ends from touching or arcing I imagine.
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11791 |
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I failed to mention earlier, if your D17 is the 4 cylinder engine gas version, the coil of choice would be a 3.0 ohm internal resisted coil. With the 4 cylinder engines running on a 12V upgrade, you need 2.7-3.3 ohms of resistance in the Ignition circuit in order for the engine to run correctly and not burn points out. A 3.0 ohm unit puts you smack in the middle and you'll be good to go!...
Steve@B&B |
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