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TomYaz 
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 Topic: All-Crop Wheel ?
Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:49am |
bounce this off you all...
On the wheel axles that take the bushings. Is it a big deal if you dont use the grease seal/cap on the one end? Put enough grease and grease will come out...yep dirt may get in there, as with all the other greased bearings.....The reason I ask is the caps are in limited supply. Dont want to consider making new ones if their usefullness is limited...
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R Aiken
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Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 11:12am |
Tom.
You should have said something two weeks ago. I watched 12 hubcaps on the way to china.
Richard
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Rawleigh
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Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 12:39pm |
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On you reburbs you might consider adapting them to the boat trailer spring loaded caps. They keep a little positive pressure on the grease to keep other unwanted stuff out. i don't know how much pressure those felt seals will hold though.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 1:34pm |
 Rawleigh wrote:
On you reburbs you might consider adapting them to the boat trailer spring loaded caps. They keep a little positive pressure on the grease to keep other unwanted stuff out. i don't know how much pressure those felt seals will hold though. |
Not sure if you guys are follwing. these "caps" are actually rings. They are on the inner
end of the axle, not on the outside of the axle that you see and would find a "hub cap". Im looking to do away with them, not adapt to anything. Want to know if that would be a big issue.
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Rawleigh
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 11:20am |
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I'm trying to remember mine. I thought there was a sheet metal piece that held the felt grease seal in. Is that what you are talking about? I need to go to the farm and look at mine.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 12:03pm |
Rawleigh wrote:
I'm trying to remember mine. I thought there was a sheet metal piece that held the felt grease seal in. Is that what you are talking about? I need to go to the farm and look at mine. |
Yeah thats it. I want to dispense with that. Dont want to spend thousands on tooling to make a part that has minimal value. Just keep the wheel greased.
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ALinIL
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 1:16pm |
Tom - Not real familiar with that cap, but it may be the same as in a front wheel seal kit.
You might just consider a large flat wasker. Approx $1.25 in McMaster-Carr
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TomYaz
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 1:29pm |
ALinIL wrote:
Tom - Not real familiar with that cap, but it may be the same as in a front wheel seal kit.
You might just consider a large flat wasker. Approx $1.25 in McMaster-Carr |
Nope wont work. The cap is pressed on to the hub. Cant press on a washer.
But like I said before, Im not looking for a substitue. Im asking for opinions on leaving it off.
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Rfdeere
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 2:58pm |
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Tom, I'm thinking that if Allis Chalmers thought that they needed that over 20+ years of production, there is a reason why.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 3:16pm |
Rfdeere wrote:
Tom, I'm thinking that if Allis Chalmers thought that they needed that over 20+ years of production, there is a reason why. |
Yes, but the question is it a good enough reason? the seal wont keep grease in if you pump enough of it in; which means it wont keep the dirt out if packed on from the outside. I assume thats what the seal is for..to keep dirt out. Just have doubts if it is critical. Plenty of other greased things that dont have a seal.
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ALinIL
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 3:30pm |
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Tom - Without the cap the seal will not stay in place. Without the seal, the dirt can easily find it's way in. You might check the hub ID, and just get a cheap lip seal to do the job. - AL
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Dave Richards (WV)
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 3:34pm |
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Tom, I'm going to say that leaving it off is not critical. I don't subscribe to your premise that if you can pump grease past it, it won't keep dirt out. It would keep a larger percentage out. Grease goes in with a lot more pressure than dirt does from the other end. That said, if you pump grease in often, it will keep the dirt out of the other side. I think the seal was to "slow" grease from migrating out past it with use. Also to keep dirt out. The theory, with the seal in place, you need to grease the bearing fewer times. I was always told, "use grease like it is free!"
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TomYaz
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 3:34pm |
ALinIL wrote:
Tom - Without the cap the seal will not stay in place. Without the seal, the dirt can easily find it's way in. You might check the hub ID, and just get a cheap lip seal to do the job. - AL |
Yes of course...Im talking about the felt and cap. Any links for a "cheap lip seal"??? whats the correct name so I can google something up?
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ALinIL
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 4:17pm |
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If you got the ID and OD, Try Motion Industries or EPM and get a price. My guess is; I'm wrong, the price will be too high. You might want to improvise. Possibly a sleeve of correct length over the axel and a flat washer, then the felt. You should be able to find something. If You get some numbers, I know there's a solution. - AL
Edited by ALinIL - 16 Nov 2010 at 4:21pm
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TomYaz
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Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 5:01pm |
Dave Richards (WV) wrote:
Tom, I'm going to say that leaving it off is not critical. I don't subscribe to your premise that if you can pump grease past it, it won't keep dirt out. It would keep a larger percentage out. Grease goes in with a lot more pressure than dirt does from the other end. That said, if you pump grease in often, it will keep the dirt out of the other side. I think the seal was to "slow" grease from migrating out past it with use. Also to keep dirt out. The theory, with the seal in place, you need to grease the bearing fewer times. I was always told, "use grease like it is free!" |
Good point Dave....Think I will see if I can get an aftermarket to fit as the others have suggested. Odds are the ID/OD will be some non-standard goofy size as AC liked to do. If not GREASE OFTEN! Just cant see spending the money on tooling a freakin grease cap!
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John In.
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 1:39pm |
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Looks like that grease seal cap is used to keep the felt seal from being pushed out when greasing..might find a tin can to fit over hub to keep it from coming out.. John
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Good
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 2:04pm |
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I don't think it's a big deal,especialy if you grease before each use. My #7 pull type sickle mower has the bushings there is really no seal on the outside just an adjuster ring and roll pin.there not a precision bearing with tight tolerance.Bushings are pretty forgiving.
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B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT
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TomYaz
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 2:12pm |
John In. wrote:
Looks like that grease seal cap is used to keep the felt seal from being pushed out when greasing..might find a tin can to fit over hub to keep it from coming out.. John |
Yep, a campbell soup can on a rebuild would look "High End" now wouldnt it? ;)
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ALinIL
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 2:41pm |
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OK Tom, I got a brain cramp. Get a flat washer that is the correct ID and tack weld to the shaft on the backside of where the hub would be flush. Then use the felt seal in the back of the hub. If you can't get the felt seal, the get mat'l from McMaster-Carr or elsewhere. It should work, that is nothing more than a straight shaft. - AL
Edited by ALinIL - 17 Nov 2010 at 2:43pm
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Rawleigh
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 3:24pm |
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Tom: How much does AGCO want for them? Do they still offer it? I got two from them a couple of years ago.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 3:35pm |
Rawleigh wrote:
Tom: How much does AGCO want for them? Do they still offer it? I got two from them a couple of years ago. |
They still have them..but only until supply runs out. Dont have the felt anymore.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 3:39pm |
ALinIL wrote:
OK Tom, I got a brain cramp. Get a flat washer that is the correct ID and tack weld to the shaft on the backside of where the hub would be flush. Then use the felt seal in the back of the hub. If you can't get the felt seal, the get mat'l from McMaster-Carr or elsewhere. It should work, that is nothing more than a straight shaft. - AL |
If was my personal machine I could go for that...but would be a hassle if one had to service (replace bushings); would need to grind the weld off. Also not as "polished" solution as I would want.---yeah go ahead and say it...I'm fussy....(my fab guy working on my rebuild has already told me so)
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ALinIL
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 3:56pm |
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Tom - The washer is welded on the shaft first at the back of the shaft where the hub will be in the assembled condition.. The bushings are in the Hub. I am referring to page of 122 of a 66B parts book. - AL
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TomYaz
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Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 7:15pm |
ALinIL wrote:
Tom - The washer is welded on the shaft first at the back of the shaft where the hub will be in the assembled condition.. The bushings are in the Hub. I am referring to page of 122 of a 66B parts book. - AL |
Ok I follow. One problem. If the washer is mounted on the shaft, the shaft better be fit snug against the hub to provide a tighter seal. However, often there is a bit of wear somewhere, havent nailed it yet, such that the shaft has a little play in and out, so that washer would be moving in and out with the shaft.
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Rawleigh
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Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 11:48am |
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How about a washer welded to the shaft far enough inboard to allow for a stack of various sized shims behind the washer that goes against the felt? That would allow for adjustment for wear. If you are not going for a restoration that is historically accurate, why not change out the axle and hub with ones that have standard trailer roller bearings in them? If they are using the machines for production wouldn't this be desirable?
Edited by Rawleigh - 18 Nov 2010 at 11:49am
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TomYaz
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Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 12:35pm |
Rawleigh wrote:
How about a washer welded to the shaft far enough inboard to allow for a stack of various sized shims behind the washer that goes against the felt? That would allow for adjustment for wear. If you are not going for a restoration that is historically accurate, why not change out the axle and hub with ones that have standard trailer roller bearings in them? If they are using the machines for production wouldn't this be desirable?
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Yah that would do it. I was thinking of that myself earlier...but my imagination failed to compute it right...Forgot that when mounted the shaft would be stationary, the hub would be doing the sliding, not the other way around.
Buying new hubs and probably rims to fit would be more expensive...Also odds are the new axle shafts would be different size and would have to re-engineer a new mount to the combine frame...If that was the case the cheap and dirty way would be to simply weld the new axle on the frame some how...but so much for serviceability..
Also, the one hub has a sprocket on it to drive the reel--would have ot come up with a solution...But that all said, I wouldnt rule it out eventually...but for now I am looking to get the first one done here ASAP and at the lowest cost, which means I will use what I got.
Edited by TomYaz - 18 Nov 2010 at 12:42pm
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Rawleigh
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Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 2:56pm |
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Tom: For future projects you might ask your machinist how much it would cost to cut off the existing spindle and bore the axle so that you can weld in a new stub axle.
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