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Steveill bear with me
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captaindana View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
Points: 2444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Steveill bear with me
    Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 7:59am


This charges great but draws the battery down when shut off if I forget to use the batts ground disconnect)

As you can see, below the big terminal on this Denso alt on my 17 III are 2 terminals forming a “T”. The top of the T I have jumping to the big terminal. Am I correct in wanting to run a wire from the other terminal of the “T” to a dash light and then onto the + side of coil? It seems the light and coil would only be energized with engine running? Will this prevent drawing the batt down if I forget to isolate batt ground? Thanks as usual! Capn D
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                          Dana
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 80171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 8:29am
On the DENSO the two small wires are HOT and SIGNAL, just like on the DELCO.. The DIFFRENCE is the HOT can not be directly connected to the BIG LUG.. It should be switched on and off just like the SIGNAL wire... but the SIGNAL also has the light bulb/ resistor in the circut..
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 33779 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 11:14am
Just curious Captain Dana, if you disconnect jumper wire (the IG wire as in Steve's wiring diagram), will the battery be drained if you leave the bat ground disconnect connected?
 I have had alternators that the diodes inside would drain the batteries  but charged good when running.
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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Points: 2444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 12:01pm
Steve should I run hot to key switch ign? Or ? Where
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Points: 2444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 12:01pm
JC not sure
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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Points: 2444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 12:27pm
Ok Steve I see it on your diagram thanks again.
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Points: 5724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 3:18pm
The IG terminal appears to be field excitation... when you put power to it, current flows through the armature to build the field magnetism. 

One way you can test this, is to connect the IG terminal to battery (you'll get current flow), then use a hacksaw blade or piece of old steel pallet strap... place it near the altenator frame, or the end of the pulley (without the engine running, of course) and the alternator's field will attract it against the case or shaft.  Disconnect the IG wire, and it will either cease, or greatly lose attraction.

For magneto-ignition engines, I use a pressure switch on the oil gallery (normally open contact, closes when pressure rises above 5psi or so) to energize the field.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 80171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 4:16pm
Captain... "normally" you dont expect to have a voltage "LEAK" when you jumper the #2 terminal to the BIG LUG... That works 99% of the time on a DELCO... It FAILS about 90% of the time on a DENSO ... Thats why they recommend using the SWITCH to turn BOTH terminals ON and OFF.

The NEXT test will be to power the coil from the switch also.. "NORMALLY" the same terminal that powers the two alternator spade terminals... See if that works and when you turn the key OFF, that the alternator does not backfeed thru the #2 spade and feed power to the coil for RUN ON.....

If that happens, then you need a pressure switch or relay that the IGN SWITCH can energize and that turns the alternator on..


Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Dec 2023 at 4:16pm
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 80171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 4:47pm
put the coil wire feed onto the same terminal on the switch... see if the motor STOPS when the key is off.

NOTE... PER DAVE ( below) ... add the DIODE to stop feedback to the coil when switch turned off.






Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Dec 2023 at 10:26pm
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Points: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 9:07pm
This is how I did mine, the plug in diode is available from Steiners.
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 80171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 9:11pm
Dave .... you put the Diode in the IG line ( to stop feed back ?)... and NO LIGHT / signal wire used ??

Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Dec 2023 at 9:11pm
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Points: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 9:31pm
That wire goes to the ignition switch, hot with the switch on, been that way for five years now and has been flawless. The tractor sits for three or four months in the winter and I never unhook the battery and fires right up.
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Points: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 9:34pm
The diode is to stop feed back and draining battery.
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Points: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 9:53pm
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 80171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 10:18pm
OK.... so the LIGHT/ RESISTOR is not needed on the NEWER VERSION of the DENSO...  Good to know !

And the DIODE prevents the alternator feeding back to the switch and then to the coil after you shut down.... Good idea... better than a relay or pressure switch !
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Points: 5724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

And the DIODE prevents the alternator feeding back to the switch and then to the coil after you shut down.... Good idea... better than a relay or pressure switch !


The diode works fine as long as the ignition circuit doesn't impose high frequency/high voltage harmonics beyond what the diode can tolerate.  A 1N4007's 1kv PIV rating will hold back MOST of the primary side transients, but if the condenser goes bad, it'll frequently nip it... inductive flyback is a witch...

When a magneto is present, there isn't a coil circuit for ignition, there's a ground lift, so unless the ignition is on a keyswitch that HAS a RUN position B+ contact, using a pressure switch is the most practical solution.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 80171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2023 at 8:37am
I use a double pole double throw switch with the mag... On position is "ground mag and no power to alternator".... other position is "  Open ground to mag and Power to alternator.. Thats my " ignition switch". ............. takes the place of the KILL SWITCH.

Edited by steve(ill) - 17 Dec 2023 at 8:40am
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