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220V outlet questions
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iowallis View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Jun 2017
Location: North Iowa
Points: 338 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iowallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 220V outlet questions
    Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 5:40pm
One of my winter projects is to fix the cracked frame on my riding mower. No problem as I have 220v in my shop for an electric heater and borrowed my son’s stick welder.

Well…. problems. My outlet for the heater is 4 prongs, the welder cord is 3 prongs.

My plan is to get a 4 prong appliance/oven/range cord and add a 3 prong plugin to make short extension cord/adaptor. Will this work? I see RV cord adaptors but none have the 3 prong style female end that matches the welder.

If this will work, the range cord has 4 wires- red, black, white, green. Which 3 do I use and what location on the female plug for the welder do I hook them to?
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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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Points: 7106 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 6:25pm
If I’m not mistaken,
4 prong 220 is two hots, one neutral, one ground.
3 prong 220 is two hots, one neutral.
Don’t take my advise, I am not an electrician, nor did stay last nite in a Holiday Inn.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Codger View Drop Down
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Points: 2022 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 7:17pm
Both are 50A, plug, and receptacle. The plug is a 6-50R, the receptacle is a 14-50R. Both are NEMA number systems.The plug shown is 250VAC only. The receptacle can supply both 250VAC, or 125VAC as per NEMA code. In reality the ratings are higher than what is supplied. 240/120VAC is common in USA. 
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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iowallis View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Jun 2017
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Points: 338 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iowallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 7:38pm
Got back into the house for the night and actually sat down at my laptop instead of trying to look up things on my phone.

Amazon and eBay have them already made for less than what it would cost for me to put one together. 

Ordered one from Amazon and will be here in the middle of the week, which is fine because I will probably not get back to working on the mower until next weekend.
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Jim.ME View Drop Down
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Points: 950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 7:42pm
Yes, it will work to make a short extension cord. Use the red and black for the two flat blade hot legs and the white for neutral on the round prong hole of the three pole receptacle. Cut the green back and tape it up so it can't contact any of the others.
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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Points: 41485 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 12:45am
In the late 80's they changed to 50 A with a ground wire as the standard for range plug 
It seems most ranges had clocks and lite or outlet , as it used 1 leg for 110 and the neutral , but no actual ground . 
  I had made up a jumper cord using just 2 wires on my welder , for couple jobs as welder didn't use 110 but the 2 legs .
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Had a four wire to three adaptor cable for my Welder when had that.  Outlet on it was Single Phase four prong, plug in converted to SP 240 three prong.

This would be similar
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iowallis View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Jun 2017
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Points: 338 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote iowallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 8:54am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Had a four wire to three adaptor cable for my Welder when had that.  Outlet on it was Single Phase four prong, plug in converted to SP 240 three prong.

This would be similar


I ended getting something similar. This would have been a little better for what I needed and slightly cheaper. Amazing what can find if you know the right terminology, which sometimes (many times?) I don’t.

Thanks for the help.
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jaybmiller View Drop Down
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Points: 22291 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 9:38am
I've never understood WHY you can't tie neutral and ground together at the receptacle ?
They are connected together at the pole, and at the main panel.

My 'new'ish dryer shows them connected together as well....

one of life's mysteries,like when you take an old skool computer screen(CRT), turn is upside down, the colours go wonky....
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Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

I've never understood WHY you can't tie neutral and ground together at the receptacle ?
They are connected together at the pole, and at the main panel.
....


It does seem weird, huh? Confused

The neutral is always intended to be a current-carrying conductor during normal use, whereas the ground is never intended to conduct current during normal use, and should only carry current during a fault condition.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Points: 80373 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 12:30pm
120 v recepticals were similar in the 1950 era... 2 wires, no ground... GOVT mandated some changes to get an "Extra" wire for the SAFETY ( ground)....At the time, that did not carry thru to "fixed location 240 v appliances", like a dryer or welder...... that came years later..

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In 1971, the US National Electrical Code (NEC) required grounded receptacles in all locations of the home (effective January 1, 1974).
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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