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JohnCO 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niwot Colo
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 Topic: Gear reduction starters
Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 3:05pm |
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The starter on my Ford 555 backhoe cranks a few revolutions then kicks out, I suspect the problem is the solenoid which I can replace for around $40. The starter is the origional one, 31 years old. E Bay has replacement starters that look just like the original for around $110. They also have gear reduction ones for under $200. Are the gear reduction ones that much better? Any suggestions?
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 3:16pm |
depends...... does it spin at the regular ones speed (RPM) or does it spin slower ? if same speed, then the new motor's running faster and the reduction is to get torque. if slower, then reduction is to get torque BUT will engine start at the lower RPM( spin speed). old Chysler had a slooooow spinning starter, gas , 318 ? , kinda wondered why....
okld skool says' rebuild what you have...yeesh if you get 1/2 life out f it, it'll probably outlive you ??
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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JC-WI
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Location: wisconsin
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Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 3:37pm |
Neighbor, old Eddie Marek had a Fordson major Diesel and he just didn't seem to have enough starter and couldn't get it started and complained to the Ford dealer about it... and Neely said just bring the starter in and he would fix it... he put 6 volt field coils into the housing... That starter spun the diesel over like it was summer after that. The kid, little Eddie, now old too, said the old Major still has that starter in it yet. LOL.
I would say just rebuild yours... but... maybe the reduction might spin it faster...and start easier?
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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JohnCO
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Location: Niwot Colo
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Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 7:58pm |
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Thanks for the advice! I took it apart and cleaned it up, put a bit of grease on the bearings and put it back together. Hooked it up to a battery and it spins like a top. I found a loose nut on the solenoid, which may have been part of the problem. Now I just have to wait until it warms up to the 40's at least to put in on and try it. If it works on the tractor I'll make a donation to the forum, as you guys saved me money!
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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desertjoe
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Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
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Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 7:59pm |
Hey John,,if the starter is kicking out before engine starts,,it must be the bendix ,,,,??
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JC-WI
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Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 11:03pm |
Johnco, how far is Trinidad, CO from you? Might be a cheap TD9...
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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JohnCO
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Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 1:00am |
It's a couple hundred miles south of me, have to drive through Denver, Colorado Springs and Pueblo to get there, plus, it's a binder!
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 5:49am |
sooooo the maintenance schedule said inspect starter every 30 years ? hehehe it's really impressive that maybe an hour or 2 ,on the bench, got it up and running ! Tells you they built stuff real good back then !!! Also nice you didn't need to spend $$$$ and have a lot of downtime.
Now, it'd be nice if you'd kick 'you know whose' machine and point it away from me..supposed to get ALL DAY freezing rain/ice pellets/sleet/snow to day...HOURS of it...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 6:14am |
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As to the OP, current Large Diesels are using Reduction gear drive starters with reasonable success. Have less dimension for removal/install, easier to access fasteners, easier to single hand hold to start a fastener, spin the engines seemingly easier and draw less amperage shocking the batteries less. HOWEVER, when they fail it generally is not sequential as to losing speed or cranking slow, they are like LED lamps, they just quit. Current Models of Delco to replace a 40MT or 50MT is a 37MT or 39MT. Also have a 29MT for engines as the old DTs IHC and smaller Cummins Case engines.
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Michael V (NM)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: NM
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Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 1:43pm |
 JC(WI) wrote:
Johnco, how far is <span ="lot-info"><span ="lot-locale">Trinidad, CO from you? Might be a cheap TD9...
</span></span>
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JC,, Trinadad CO, only bout 100 miles or so from me, I think I looked at some that stuff, lots IH, only AC was a WD...
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JC-WI
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Location: wisconsin
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Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 8:44pm |
Listened to the vid on the binder, and I think it will go cheap since it sounds like a three cyl. threshing machine... Might be just a valve problem since it seems to miss on gas and diesel. Well that 's just my guess.  Good Luck Michael V.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Michael V (NM)
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Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 9:35pm |
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Yea, I watched that video today, I thought it was barely running on 2, maybe 3 once in awhile, looked to barely have enough power to move... Of the red stuff, I kinda like the 756...if the WD goes less than $4-500, I might think about bidding on it...
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 10:40pm |
John, the loose nut was probably 90% of the issue.
More often than not, dragging starters are simply not getting enough CURRENT, and any resistance in the battery cables, connections, or ground path severely restricts current.
If the starter armature's bushings are worn, the shaft centerline will drift around, and cause the brushes to make bad contact. When this happens, the commutator gets really hot, and the brushes wear really fast... and worn brushes don't carry current well.
Glad you found the problem, and starters do NOT get maintained very well in general. My Hyster H50H has a Ford 192 industrial in it... and while it starts really well, the bendix does get a bit sticky in colder weather, it doesn't wanna come all the way back. Not good for the ring gear... 
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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