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Gas Tank Cleaning? |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 5:59pm |
Hi guys! I'm working on tuning up an excellent surviving original 1966 Honda 305 "Dream" motorcycle. It hadn't ran in over 20 years, but after cleaning the carburetor and hooking up an auxiliary fuel tank, I got it running (kinda). The bottom of the fuel tank has varnish in it (There was about a quart or two of gas in it was all), and I've heard a lot of different methods to get it out/dissolve it. Some say pour in lacquer thinner and let it sit. Some say acetone, muriatic acid, apple cider vinegar, or even water and Oxi-Clean. Every review I've seen said they are all easy methods, but does anyone here know for sure?
I know putting some rocks or bolts in the tank and shaking it helps quite a bit, but if I can keep from doing that, I'd like to, because of the difficulty I've had in the past with getting everything back out, especially with baffles.
I'm a little hesitant about any major chemicals, as the paint and chrome on the tank are superb, and I don't want to mess it up. I said earlier it's "kinda running"...It will start right up with the kick starter when some throttle is applied, but when I let go of the throttle it dies. Runs great as long as I hold the throttle a little bit, but when the RPMs get a little low, it quits. I need to do some more investigating and see if it's sucking air somewhere it shouldn't. I may get the propane bottle out to test that. (release the gas around different points on the carb and see if engine sound/RPM changes to verify leaks) This is the first time I've ever done any involved work on a motorcycle, so it's all kinda new to me. Although most of it seems like "regular" engine stuff, just smaller than what I'm used to. Thanks! |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50663 |
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Drop a couple feet of light duty steel chain in it, and rig it up in a paint shaker...
You can always fish the chain out, wif a strong magnet.
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Dakota Dave
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3895 |
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I use a piece of dog chain and diesel fuel. Rinse with soap and hot water. And blow dry with the shop vac.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9291 |
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Chain and roofing nails. Strap it to a concrete mixer and let it run. I’ve had good luck with mutator acid but I’d be hesitant to try it while wanting to save original paint.
Mc carbs and manifolds can be a pain to seal up. Inspect the intake very close. Dreams were very cool bikes. Good save👍 |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Thanks, Thad! Dad got the bike at a garage sale back in the 70s or 80s I believe, but it's stayed tucked away most of its life. I had never seen it run in all of my 20 years, so I'm excited to get it road worthy again, even if it's not quite a Harley
I was surprised to see it has 20,000 miles on it. Seems pretty high, but the bike looks nearly new.
I don't have a concrete mixer, but I have heard of guys using tractor wheels. Jack up one side, strap the tank on, and let it go for a while. I think the G would be a good candidate for that. I made an attachment a few years ago for using it to roll up long lengths of garden hose, and it worked quite well. Do you think a tiny bit of sealer on the O-ring that seals the carb to the engine would help if it's leaking there? Edited by CrestonM - 29 Mar 2018 at 6:41pm |
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johnkc
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: KCMO Points: 714 |
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If you’re going after varnish only, not rust inside the tank. don’t use the chain or nuts and bolts or anything just use a degreaser, citrus-based to start with. I use a chemical called Powertune by Mercury/ Quicksilver that is very good at cutting varnish. Get it at a Mercury outboard dealer.
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I support the development of hybrid automobiles and alternative fuels as I need DIESEL fuel for my ALLIS CHALMERS!
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78102 |
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a little sealer on the o-ring cant hurt... new O-rings are even better !!
The old carbs have a throttle slide ( like a piston) in the bore that the cable pulls up... there should be a screw on the side half way down.. Turn it in a turn or two and it lifts the piston up and increases idle speed... do this AFTER checking for leaks.. You can always lower it back down later if things seal up and the idle gets too high.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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JW in MO
Orange Level Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: South KC Area Points: 2597 |
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The chain, ball bearings, rocks etc... idea is good for old tractor gas tanks but you don't want to use that on a 305 Dream gas tank. They are square with lots of corners and you could easily damage it, they are waaaay too collectable for that. I would not use muriatic acid either but I would not be afraid of acetone or lacquer thinner. Neat looking old bikes, should be a lot of fun, enjoy.
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Maximum use of available resources!
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9291 |
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Don’t be runnin 60 all over on dry old tires when you get it going. I keep us posted |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Ok, thanks. I guess a parts store would probably have the gas-resistant O-ring?
One thing I noticed about this O-ring was I got a little carb cleaner on it, and it immediately twisted up. It took me a while to finally get it where it would press flat in the groove for re-assembly (Didn't have another O-ring at the time and just wanted to see if it'd run).
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Just swish it around in the tank, and maybe scrape the bottom with a stick? Will it hurt the paint if any gets on the it? If it does, I'll be sure to immediately wipe it off, but I imagine I can keep it clean. Also....would the acetone/lacquer thinner eat up the rubber fuel line connecting both sides of the tank? (It's a new line...the old one was rotten) If so, what would you recommend I plug the holes with? I'll try to get a pic this weekend for y'all to see. Hopefully I'll get it ready for a little test drive around the block.
Edited by CrestonM - 29 Mar 2018 at 8:03pm |
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im4racin
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 844 |
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I would say that if it won't idle then the idle circuit in the carb is plugged. Have you had the carb apart and cleaned? After that many years of sitting the same varnish in the tank is in the carb passages too. Is this 2 stroke or 4 stroke. If it's 2 then cleaning the carb is not up for discussion. It's mandatory. As for cleaning the tank I just use hot water pressure washer. The time required to clean depends directly to the amount of varnish and water temp. Ours gets nearly to boiling. I had to wear insulated gloves to tip the tank over to drain out!
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Before it was parked the engine was ran with the fuel petcock off and allowed the gas to run out of the carburetor, so it was relatively clean already, but yes I did clean it. It is a 4 stroke engine.
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13611 |
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you gonna put a mud tire on it?
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weiner
Orange Level Joined: 19 May 2012 Location: Cadillac, Mi. Points: 4305 |
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My word! My first bike was the little brother, 150 Dream. You meet the nicest people on a Honda.
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Real heros wear dogtags, not capes.
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4436 |
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Creston: Harleys are nothing but “hound dogs” I see the pansy owners of them letting them ride in the back of pick ups all the time If they were truely a motorcyclist, they’d be in the saddle
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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Stan IL&TN
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730 |
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Another option would be to just add an inline fuel filter and just add gas to the tank. In theory over time it should dissolve the old stuff and if any flakes off you will have the filter to catch it before it gets to the carb. I have restored a couple of 70's Hondas and cleaned and sealed the tanks but didn't have to worry about keeping the paint intact. You will be running some risk using any chemical unless you are very careful.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Thanks Stan. I need to do a little cleaning at least, as the fuel peacock is full of junk I believe. It was very hard to open/close, and when I got it open, nothing would come out. I’m going to try and remove it, but I just hope it’s not stuck on too bad. Don’t want to break something getting it off. Fuel filter idea is good, as it doesn’t have one right now, although I’ve been told the fuel stem in the tank has one built in? |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Nice to know! Dad almost bought a 150 back when he was 18, but didn’t go through with it. A little later he got this one. |
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TDF
Bronze Level Joined: 22 Oct 2015 Location: Seward, NE Points: 62 |
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Between me, my two brothers, and my Dad, we currently own 125 motorcycles, and have had numerous others in the past. And one heck of a lot of them had varnished up and rusty tanks. Have tried all most all the methods previously mentioned, but the one we prefer is to take the tank down to the local carwash, and use the powerwasher and spray out the inside. You have to keep working the tank around to different angles, and letting water out of the tank, but that blast of water will rip the rust and varnish right off. Wear old clothes and pick a warm day because you're going to get wet.
TDF |
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Stan IL&TN
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730 |
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If the fuel petcock has a small bowl on it then it should have a small round screen mounted in it. On the 70's Hondas anyway. After the small bowl is off then you will see the petcock mounting screw which holds the petcock to the bottom of the tank. Again that is for a 70's Honda so it might not be the same on the Dream.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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From your description, that sounds right. I know it has the bowl on the bottom, but I haven't tried taking it off yet.
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HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3303 |
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we made a right angle nozzle and angled wand for our steamer cleaner just for gas tanks a few years ago realley speeds up the cleaning , i think what works the best for getting the varnish loosened up is plain old e10 gasoline, for the black goo hot water and crystal drainO, just rusty ones we just strap them to the cement mixer with clean crushed rock
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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You know, I've heard guys say E10 or even E85 (use E85 for soaking only) will eat up varnish. I always figured it would do the opposite and clog things up, as I've heard it's hard on engines and carbs that sit for long periods of time. I never usually buy E10, especially for things that sit, but if it will work for cleaning the varnish out, I will give it a try!
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11422 |
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Creston, when you get that one done, you can take a vacation up here to MI and get my '71 CB 500 Four running good. 3 squares, a queen bed, heck, I'll even let you keep an eye on calving. And I got a daughter.......but be a gentleman!
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Hahaha, all very tempting incentives, but I ain't going nowhere up north this time of year! Too dang cold for this southerner. It's been in the 60s/70s lately, but supposed to dip back to the 30s on Easter. Oh...got to thinking about your "incentives" and forgot to post the update! Got the petcock off, and it was all corroded looking inside. It's currently soaking in Berryman carb cleaner. I washed the tank out with a garden hose, and I guess I was wrong. There really wasn't much varnish in there, but there is light surface rust. I'm thinking of sloshing some Ospho around in it tomorrow (Phosphoric acid) and hopefully that will fix the light rust issue. Any ideas/recommendations? Or just blast the inside with a pressure washer and not bother with the acid?
Edited by CrestonM - 30 Mar 2018 at 10:49pm |
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Ted J
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18728 |
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I'm surprised that Coke didn't get in on this thread Creston. He is kind of our resident expert on OLD bikes. My buddy had a 66 dream and I had a 66 Scrambler. WHAT a world of difference!! Wish I had that bike back.... Gave me a BIG (at the time) hospital bill and some VERY nice in house hospital treatment from SEVERAL girls... If it didn't hurt so bad, I'd of loved the attention.
I'd use 1/4 or 3/8 nuts. You can reuse them for ever!! They are easy to get out of the tank with a magnet and get the tank nice and clean. GOOD luck, they are a lot of fun to ride. Back in the day, they were the BIG bikes...LOL |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11422 |
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I got my gas tank all cleaned up nice a few years back. I started with the nuts trick to knock the bigger looser stuff off. I bought a kit of stuff called Kreem I think it was...clean, etch, coat the inside of the tank. I think I did something good, but maybe not. The project sort of died off after that. A buddy owed me a bartering favor, and he was supposed to clean the carbs. He sort of halfassed it and it ran for a little while then the floats stuck and flooded it. I had friggin' gas pouring into the air cleaner before I limped home (from the parking lot across the street!) Sighhhh.....I sure wish I could get that bike in good shape.
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Walker
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: oh Points: 8104 |
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Varnish, pad it good with rags then bungee it to a rear tractor wheel add some clean gravel and go for a ride. Rust, go to TSC and get a gallon of Milk Stone Remover mix with water and let her sit over night.
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Michael V (NM)
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NM Points: 2345 |
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I had/still have a IIRC a 1974 750-4,, good runnin machine back when I was in the motorcycle gang lol... haven't thought about it much til now ...its dust covered in the back of the barn....
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