Front Camshaft Hydraulic Pump on AC 160

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   Hi there,
My AC 160 has a 6.7 gpm hydraulic pump that is being used to also run my loader add-on.  I've been talking to a few people and they mention that their tractors (people on here, so AC's) have a third pump that runs their hydraulics for their loader that runs off of the front crank.  I've been looking for pictures and similar setups but I can't find any online.  Can anyone provide me some additional information?

I'm assuming I can get a pump where the shaft goes into something in the middle of the front pully?

I'm going to take a look at my tractor today.

I've also found some other pumps that have higher flow and am wondering if I could just replace the current pump on the tractor with a higher gpm one as long as I can make it fit and the gear goes on the shaft of the new one.

I'm wondering if my hydraulic sump and mesh screen would be ok with a higher flow.  If I install another third pump at the front off of the camshaft, could I still use the same sump for that pump?  Or would I need a new hyd tank, filter, etc. as well?

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MrS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 26 Jun 2023 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 15	Post Options Post Reply Quote MrS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Front Camshaft Hydraulic Pump on AC 160 Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 9:19am
	Hi there, My AC 160 has a 6.7 gpm hydraulic pump that is being used to also run my loader add-on. I've been talking to a few people and they mention that their tractors (people on here, so AC's) have a third pump that runs their hydraulics for their loader that runs off of the front crank. I've been looking for pictures and similar setups but I can't find any online. Can anyone provide me some additional information? I'm assuming I can get a pump where the shaft goes into something in the middle of the front pully? I'm going to take a look at my tractor today. I've also found some other pumps that have higher flow and am wondering if I could just replace the current pump on the tractor with a higher gpm one as long as I can make it fit and the gear goes on the shaft of the new one. I'm wondering if my hydraulic sump and mesh screen would be ok with a higher flow. If I install another third pump at the front off of the camshaft, could I still use the same sump for that pump? Or would I need a new hyd tank, filter, etc. as well?

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DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 7:27pm
	I know very little about a 160/6040 tractor. I do know they are different than all other A-C's. A front located shaft driven pump from the crankshaft was never offered by A-C, I think. If you choose to fabricate your own, get a tank and filter and make it a dedicated system is thee BEST way of doing such a thing.

AC720Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC720Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 8:09pm

	1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD

AC720Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC720Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 8:20pm
	Unfortunately my manual doesn’t give me the GPM of the pump. A drive shaft attaches to the crank shaft pulley and drives the pump via a chain drive. Chain drive can be disconnected when the loader is removed from the frame when not in use. Disconnect sump hose and quick disconnect loader hoses, support the loader and back away from it. Not as easy as todays loaders but a 20 min job. My Mahindra, I can have the loader disconnected in less than 5 minutes. I would suggest looking for a 460 self contained loader like mine. Made specifically for the 160. I see them for sale occasionally. Has the supports going back to the rear axles which is extremely important.
	1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD

BrianC Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Location: New York Points: 1619	Post Options Post Reply Quote BrianC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 9:43pm
	Hey where did the starting battery go, the pump is in the way! I would agree with the "get the 460 loader system" idea. But I bet you could DIY a hydraulic pump similar to the 460 setup. As for a larger pump to replace the existing pump, if there was such a thing, that may work. Always have to worry about busting a drive gear. However, the 160 next generation was the 6040. They dumped the side rail mounted power steering pump, and replaced the main hydraulic pump with a long two section pump. This handles PS and main hydraulics. This seems to say the camshaft gear could handle more hydraulics load. The PS flow was 7.5 gallons but at just 1100 pounds pressure. I figure about 55% more load on the drive gear (same part number used). That would be 6.7+7.5 gallons oil flowing through that suction screen. I don't know if the 6040 suction screen is different from 160. Ready to talk about brakes if you need to.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 10:25pm
	Typically, the front pumps A-C used were at least 10 GPM @2,000 RPM and no more than 12 GPM.

AC720Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC720Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 10:38pm
	Battery goes back in place in front of the pump.
	1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD

MrS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 26 Jun 2023 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 15	Post Options Post Reply Quote MrS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 10:44pm
	Hey there, Thanks for the replies everyone. I've done quite a bit of searching online, and while I can find a lot of pictures of the 460 loader attachment and even some on tractors, what I don't see anywhere is one where an additional pump is installed. I only see them running the lines to the valve banks from the aux lines at the back of the tractor. I'm still trying to find a setup where I can see a front mounted pump. I've found a pretty good thread on this forum where a guy goes through his fabbing of a front pump for a D17 - link to it here. I think I'm seeing how this could be done now. I'll have to look at my setup to see what my front pulley looks like to see if it has the bolt holes or if I'd have to get a new pully. Either way, it looks pretty sweet. I still don't understand if these guys are using their existing oil sump or an entirely new tank. I'm thinking using the same sump wouldn't work because you'd be drawing different amounts of oil at each pump and one would starve the other. What I'm pondering, is replacing my existing style pump (link here) with something like this (12.7 gpm). They make 20 gpm ones very similar too, but I don't want to go too crazy because it's also feeding my 3 pt. I know it looks different but I think I could maybe get it to bolt in there if I think my suction screen could handle it and it wouldn't damage my 3 pt. For peace of mind I'd obviously rather go with a front pump I think, but when I look at the tractor I can't picture where I would put an external hydraulic tank without the thing looking like an absolute monstrosity.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20479	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 1:17am
	A typical front loader pump tank is inside the loader frame tower on the right or left side. Holds 3 gallons of oil.

AC720Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC720Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 8:37am

	1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD

AC720Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC720Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 8:43am
	Sorry for the sideways pictures but this is my 460 loader. It came off of a 160 that was ordered new at SLI as a package. Tractor needed a rebuild and the customer decided to trade it in on a new tractor. The load sump is built into the left side frame rail. The pump bolts to the front of the tractor and the sump hose attaches to the lower elbow at the tank. They made these loaders in this configuration or the type that run off the tractor hydraulics using the 4 rear hydraulic remotes and 2 remote levers mounted at the console.
	1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD

AC720Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC720Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 8:45am
	Driveshaft and chain drive
	1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD