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Model B 3pt lift and air filter question
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trhod12 View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 Mar 2010
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    Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 1:14am

Hello all, new to this forum. I just found it last night. I have thrown these questions out on  another forum, and want to get some opinions here.

 
These questions were in relation to the 3pt lift on the model B:
 
I've got a 1940 Model B with single ram 3 pt hitch.

I have a woods 4ft brush hog that wieghs apprx 450lbs. My B will lift the rear wheel of the brush hog 6-8" off the ground. Should the tractor be able to lift this impliment 14-16" off the ground, or am I expecting too much from the hydraulics????

I realize that 3pt on this tractor are after market, and this might be a shot in the dark. But does anyone know what the psi lift this tractor has on the 3pt?????? And/or what is the maximum lift capability that the 3pt can do??

 
The other night I had my 3pt broadcast spreader on to spread grass seed. I had parked the tractor on a slight decline to the right, and lowered the spreader. When I went to lift the spreader again, the lift wouldn't move. Once, I moved it back up to level ground, it lifted right up. Why would it do this??? The fluid appears to me to be right at the "full" line on the transmission case. This fill line seems to be slightly below the bottom of the fill hole. Should the fluid be filled right to the bottome of the fill plug hole??
I have not changed the fluid yet. I am trying to find someone near me who can help me determine if I need to do hydraulic work on the lift before I waiste the $$ putting the new fluid in. Finding people who know A/C locally, is a tough proposition. Everyone seems to know about John deere or IH/farmall.

Another question about the air cleaner. I read that I should "inspect and clean daily" in the manual. I can get the oil collection bowl off the bottom, and took the cleaner off the tractor. Is there some way to get to the inside of the filter to clean it out???? Or what is the proper procedure for "cleaning and maintaining."
 
Thanks for any input you might have on these topics. I cut/pasted them from the other forum, so I hope it is not too choppy.
 
Blessings,
TRHOD12
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Charlie175 View Drop Down
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Not sure on how much it will lift, but is the 3 pt in good working condition? How large is the ram? if it is the small one then it won't lift it, if you have an after market large ram, the transmission only holds 1 extra quart for the hydraulics, maybe you are running out of fluid to raise the ram any higher.

The Air Cleaner needs to be cleaned as needed, basically clean the oil out of the tub and put fresh oil in it. For normal work it will last a long time, if you are in a lot of dust/dirt then yes clean it daily
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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trhod12 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Charlie175 Charlie175 wrote:

Not sure on how much it will lift, but is the 3 pt in good working condition? How large is the ram? if it is the small one then it won't lift it, if you have an after market large ram, the transmission only holds 1 extra quart for the hydraulics, maybe you are running out of fluid to raise the ram any higher.

The Air Cleaner needs to be cleaned as needed, basically clean the oil out of the tub and put fresh oil in it. For normal work it will last a long time, if you are in a lot of dust/dirt then yes clean it daily
I believe the lift is in good working order, but am not sure. I am trying to find someone around me who knows more about this than me, and can determine if the hydraulics are 100%. It lifts without any major chattering, it lowers fast, but smooth. I dont' notice any major leakage. So I think it is working correctly. The ram is approx 1" in diameter, and I would believe it to be an OEM ram. Some people have told me that this is about all the  3 pt on a B should lift, and others have said if the hydraulics are working correctly, it should lift the front of the tractor off the ground before stalling out the hydraulics. So, I don't know what to think. I know the fluid is in need of changing, and might be all that I need. I was trying to wait to change the fluid, to see if I needed to do hydaulic work first. I didn't want to waste the new fluid.
 
W/R to air cleaner. So the only thing I can clean is the oil, I don't/can't get into wire messing in the filter to clean that. Am I correct????
 
Thanks for your reply,
 
I am learning a lot, but I still have a lot to learn about tractors.
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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The best way to check the hydraulic system is to put a gage on it.  The gage should be at least a 5000 psi. The system has a bypass valve that can be adjusted to increase pressure. It should run somewhere near 3000 to 3500 psi.
 When the tractor is tipped to the right you may have starved the pump of fluid. There isn't a lot of extra capacity in the rear end for the hydraulic system. The geometry of the 3 pt system may have something to do with what it will lift but I'd bet your a little short on oil and maybe need to crank up the PSI a little.
 The air cleaner mesh can be cleaned by placing the air cleaner in some sort of solvent and swishing it around. It might take some work but it will clean a lot of old crud out.
 
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Can you post a picture of the 3 point? Or email it to me and I will post it.
I haven't seen a lift that uses the small ram, but I guess it could have enough power with the right linkage. But anyway I am curious about your type of setup.
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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The reason it would not lift on a downwerd hill is that all the trans fluid ran forward. The later tractors had a gasket with a dam that would not allow all the fluid to run forward.
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trhod12 View Drop Down
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Thanks for all the responses. Like I said, I have a lot to learn.
Charlie, I will get some pix upload as soon as I can for you.
 
So what type of solvent should I use for the air cleaner?? I just sit the air cleaner in the solvent and swish it a round for a couple of days??? Is that about it. My air cleaner appears  to be painted black, will the solvent take off the paint???
 
 
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Use kerosene, only takes a few minutes of swishing around. 
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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If you use kerosene like Charlie says, it shouldn't hurt the paint.  Alot of other AC models the mesh material was removable out of the filter canister, but on the B's, C's, and CA's, it wasn't kind of made to stay in there unless you cut the bottom apart and modify it.  If you clean it with kerosene real good, it should probably be good for many years, as long as you keep the oil in the bottom changed regularly.   The oil bath filters can be a pain, but if you've ever taken one apart that was full of crud, you can see how well they work to trap the dust before it makes it into the engine.  Like the others said, if you were pointing downhill forward, the hydraulic compartment, and the rear differential/tranny share the same compartment for fluid so most of it was probably away from the pump and it couldn't suck any up.  I would check the hyd. pressure, as most people do talk on here that the hydraulics will lift things up on the back to the point that the front end will get really light.  If yours isn't doing that, fluid is low, or pressure isn't up to snuff, or a combination.
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Originally posted by ChuckLuedtkeSEWI ChuckLuedtkeSEWI wrote:

If you use kerosene like Charlie says, it shouldn't hurt the paint.  Alot of other AC models the mesh material was removable out of the filter canister, but on the B's, C's, and CA's, it wasn't kind of made to stay in there unless you cut the bottom apart and modify it.  If you clean it with kerosene real good, it should probably be good for many years, as long as you keep the oil in the bottom changed regularly.   The oil bath filters can be a pain, but if you've ever taken one apart that was full of crud, you can see how well they work to trap the dust before it makes it into the engine.  Like the others said, if you were pointing downhill forward, the hydraulic compartment, and the rear differential/tranny share the same compartment for fluid so most of it was probably away from the pump and it couldn't suck any up.  I would check the hyd. pressure, as most people do talk on here that the hydraulics will lift things up on the back to the point that the front end will get really light.  If yours isn't doing that, fluid is low, or pressure isn't up to snuff, or a combination.
 
The thing that I was confused about w/r to the the 3pt not lifting on the hill, is that the way I had it parked. I had the right side of the tractor facing down hill. This is the side of the tractor that the pump is on. I would have thought that the fluid would drain toward the pump, and not away from it. Or is there something I am missing??
 
The oil bath filter--is that the part of the filter that looks to be a wire mesh in the bottom of the air filter, right above the oil bath pan??? Is this something that I should be able to take out and clean???
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Originally posted by Charlie175 Charlie175 wrote:

Can you post a picture of the 3 point? Or email it to me and I will post it.
I haven't seen a lift that uses the small ram, but I guess it could have enough power with the right linkage. But anyway I am curious about your type of setup.
charlie, hopefully I will have pictures for you on this post:
 
veiw of overall 3pt hitch:
 
Top view of ram housing looking down from the seat (seat removed)(1 3/4")
 
view of ram from front looking back under seat pan right side of picture show part of hydraulic pump (1")
 
top view looking down under seat (seat removed) of the pump, ram, hose, and ram attachment to 3pt lift
 
another view of 3pt hitch. I don't know how I got this one so big. lol
 
If you need me to shoot more pix let me know. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out.
 
 
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Just to follow up on this question in case someone comes across it later. It appears that I have the original hydraulic cylinder for the tractor hooked up to the 3pt. The ram is approx 1" dia, and the hydraulic housing is approx 1 3/4" dia. This ram was designed to lift and lower small implements like cultivators. When the 3pt was added to the B, there should have been a larger hydraulic cylinder exchanged for the OEM ram.
 
After calling to several places, I found the cylinder I needed from OK tractor. A little pricey, but after talking to several people. I wanted to make sure I was getting the correct hydraulic cylinder. I guess A/C used a high pressure, low volume hydraulic system requiring 3500psi, most modern tractors run on 2000psi, and apparently most B's today, in reality, operate with about 3000psi.
 
Thanks to all for your help on this one, especially Charlie175. I couldn't have done it w/o you.
 
Blessings,
TRHOD12
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If you have a problem with low hyd fluid on downhill in a B or C, make sure your gasket for the PTO pump and belt pulley unit has the dam, or that the dam is still intact. Look at the parts book to see the differences in that gasket.
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Glad to help out
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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I have a 5' bush hog I have used on my CA which is a little bit bigger than a B. The bush hog is a snap coupler and the CA will lift it just about like what your B does. I'd say you're getting about what is to be expected. Fresh fluid never hurts though.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Ok, I recieved my new hydraulic cylinder from OKtractor. I talked to Jim there, and he seemed to know about the high pressure/low volume hydraulics that A/C used. Pressure needs to be in the 3000-3500psi range.
 
On this side of my new cylinder is says:
 Maxim(brandname) 2500psi
  bore: 2"
  stroke: 8" ASAE
  rod dia: 1.125"
 
I was a little concerned. Shouldn't this cylinder have 3500psi stamped on the side?? If my B is operating at 3000-3500psi, won't I destroy this cylinder.
 
I tried to call OKtractor, but they were out for the weekend.
 
Thanks, again for your input.
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If it were mine I'd try it. Curious if it helps. My original thought was what type oil your using. In my 1948 C, I use Multipurpose transmission/hydralic oil. I always fill mine over full, by  having fill side higher. My self with your set up I would keep implement low.
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Just wanted to follow up for some closure on this topic.
 
Talked to Jim at OKtractor who consulted the place the cylinder was sent from. Apparently, this hydraulic cylinder has been tested before it leaves the factory at 3X the stamped maximum psi. So it was tested at 7500psi. This cylinder is the same one they have been sending w/ the model B 3pt conversion kits for 5 years, and they have never had a problem with it. Jim said, if I have a problem he will make it right.
 
So with this in mind I set to the task of hooking up the new hydraulics. I changed the fluid to amsoil 5w30 tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid, and hooked up the new cylinder.
 
The night before, for grins and giggles, I hooked up the tractor (w/ old hydraulic cylinder) to my 6 1/2' double gang disc and lifted it. It would life the disc about 4" off the ground, and then it would sink back down to the ground as soon as I let off the lift.
 
Armed w/ the new cylinder and fluid, I again hooked up the disc and lifted it. It lifted maximally thru the full stroke of the ram (approx 10" off the ground) and held it up in the air like it was a feather.
 
So the morale to the story is the new hydraulic cylinder was the fix, and I am happy as a clam in a bake.
 
Thanks to all for your suggestions and help on this one. It is much appriciated.
 
Blessings,
 
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Glad you have it resolved
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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