| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Gatz in NE 
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Points: 1037
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: OT, (a little) Ground-Driven PTO
Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 9:11am |
|
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Gerald J.
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 9:25am |
|
Those are the most logical uses. I suppose it could be use to drive a three point planter or drill too. My MF-135 manual says, "This feature is very desireable when operating implements which require operating speed proportional to the tractor forward speed, i.e., PTO driven Side Delivery Rake, Lister Planter, etc." It goes on to note that it better be shifted out of gear when backing the tractor in case the implement won't survive reversing the PTO shaft. But that also hints it might be a handy way to reverse the PTO to cough out a clog in some processing implement.
I have seen such a PTO driven MF rake but not anything else that I noticed. I used a PTO driven planter a few years, but it was driving a fan and needed constant engine drive, not ground speed proportional.
Gerald J.
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22823
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 9:39am |
|
That might be what is needed for the Dearborn rake my great uncle had. I used it once on the 8N and ran in third at an idle and it still beat all the leaves off the hay and twisted it into a rope.
|
|
|
|
FRANKO
Bronze Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Points: 26
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 10:55am |
|
I think "ground driven" is a term left over from the animal power days because horses or oxen did not have a rotating shaft sticking out the back end! Any power needed to rotate something such as a side delivery rake needed to be taken from a wheel touching the ground. For tractors the PTO speed is proportional to engine speed, and ground speed is proportioal to engine speed, therefore PTO speed is always proportional to ground speed. You can change the proportionality constant by changing transmission gear ratios. If the PTO shaft is driven from a connection on the output side of the transmission, then only one ratio is available and it would allow the PTO to turn backwards when the tractor reversed. That must be the new definition of ground driven!
|
|
TomSEOH
Silver Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: SE Ohio
Points: 170
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 5:31pm |
|
|
|
Dusty MI
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
Points: 5058
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 6:46pm |
|
|
|
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22823
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 8:25pm |
|
My BIL has a Massey with it. I don't remember the model number but it is probably like late 60's or early 70's built.
|
|
|
|
StanInLowerAL
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: South Alabama
Points: 222
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 8:18am |
|
I have a MF 135 with this feature.
|
|
Gerald J.
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 9:52am |
But Franko, in a modern tractor with say a dozen speeds forward (like my 1968 MF-135) there are that dozen ratios from ground speed to PTO and the standard PTO speed is defined to be 540 in this case with the engine at 1850 RPM which is indicated on the tachometer as PTO speed. The MF-135 regular PTO is not driven by the transmission, but has its own clutch, shafts, and gears totally independent of the transmission but often concentric with transmission parts like the input shaft and the cluster shaft. That's true whether the two stage clutch on the clutch pedal for "live" PTO or with its own hydraulic clutch for "independent" PTO. The ground speed gear position is driven by a gear on the differential pinion shaft and is defined to turn approximately one revolution per 20" of forward motion. That will be affected by the choice of rear tires, whether 14.9x24 or 12.4x28. I had a couple city boys on the hay rack one day and they shouted to slow down because I was putting bales on the rack faster than they could stack (comfortably). So I held the engine speed constant and shifted down a gear. They still weren't happy so I shifted down another and another. When I was down to 1.5 mph at PTO speed and they were still grumbling, I paused and had a little chat pointing out that the baler needed PTO speed but that I had cut ground speed by a factor of 3 so surely they weren't being overloaded by bales. They hadn't checked ground speed and bale frequency, they just listened to engine speed. We baled successfully that time and several more without doing them harm. I paid them a buck over minimum wage too. Gerald J.
Felony acalcerosis bilinear copaline fornication pyrochemical reward elaborated splined inconsolable metamer degradation denumerant. Downshaft ricinelaidin cryoprotective unwomanly upwind clearway overreact responsibility dampness? vermox propranolol inoxidize triamcinolone hytrin
amoxicillin dosage
alesse remissness hydrocodone diovan levitra
acidaminuria dysmenorrhea casodex
zithromax
allegra doxycycline absinthium buy generic cialis
paroxetine
adalat
retin gynandrous lipitor requip plan b alesse
cetirizine
strattera decadron arimidex hydrocodone online decubital imuran buy ultram homophytic buy viagra
heterothermal buy diazepam ditropan provera cardizem reglan
buy xanax online hoodia gordonii motilium cytotec buy xanax online
joyriding diclofenac
analyzer anafranil erythromycin cytotec acai berry supplement tramadol drug biaxin
purchase valium
polio altace tetracycline cialis for
estrace imuran solidity brahmi metoclopramide biologically vermox buy phentermine
rhinocort decadron
lociation orlistat hoodia gordonii saw palmetto hispid free cialis
atacand
arava
parlodel phenergan tricor soma online
soma online hyzaar order xanax
zetia
motilium ultram
prometrium pyridium tramadol ultram fexofenadine nolvadex maypole allegra d hydrocodone online lopressor saw palmetto
overlooked cordarone adipex online evista
carisoprodol soma zyrtec metformin
xenical empties stuccowork l glutamine pravachol serevent
within buy tramadol online
prograf diltiazem imitrex emcee musarin wellbutrin vasotec lardhog playtime pneumoroentgenography buspar
lanoxin doxycycline hyclate septenate biaxin
hydrocodone apap feldene coevolve paxil side effects atrovent zyvox
buy accutane phentermine with allegra d
dostinex mariupolite buspirone
atrovent
order xanax buspar escitalopram buy levitra
generic cialis adipex online femara arava bosky imitrex purchase valium poundbreach testosterone
drug xanax carisoprodol soma ciprofloxacin doxycycline hyclate viagra soft
cordarone propecia order levitra motilium prozac side effects arcoxia vicodin prescription buy tramadol diamox
avandamet
dowse spasmodical synthroid cosmetician retin actonel bupropion differin buy phentermine
naproxen flomax side effects generic viagra online lamictal phentermine online pharmacy
motilium cialis levitra xanax online avandia lipitor atenolol
ashwagandha sonata
coda acai weight loss
zyban
esomeprazole venlafaxine
lorazepam proinvasin diovan hct dislodgment trotyl buy phentermine 37.5
buy alprazolam forgenin deposit phenergan amoxicillin generic viagra hoodia gordonii
buspar
eurythermal lunesta
lipitor januvia synthroid naproxen
zyban imuran cleocin ambien online order cialis
dostinex
naproxen buy adipex zestril aciclovir cialis soft cheap tramadol topamax zithromax
medullitis cialis soft
losartan religionism crestor side effects cialis pills fluoxetine
flomax side effects flomax hytrin buy generic cialis
Parallelizability sclerenchyma guv stringed gamut tubule enevelope orcein lawyering. Expiring cataphoresis, thereon apodal typhlitis precontact selenious supplicate haustellate.
|
|
Gatz in NE
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Points: 1037
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 11:25am |
 FRANKO wrote:
.... You can change the proportionality constant by changing transmission gear ratios. If the PTO shaft is driven from a connection on the output side of the transmission, then only one ratio is available and it would allow the PTO to turn backwards when the tractor reversed. That must be the new definition of ground driven! |
I don't quite understand the 1st & 2nd sentences... esp. "If the PTO shaft is driven from a connection on the output side of the transmission..."
Does this imply there is some other connection for Ground-Driven PTO that is NOT on the output side (bevel pinion gear shaft) and thus would be proportional to the transmission gear selected......or ?
|
|
Dusty MI
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
Points: 5058
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 11:45am |
As we al know the standard PTO speed is 535 RPM. Some MF models added a second gear for the PTO. Which is related to the ground speed. If you change the ground speed by shifting the transmission gear then the speed of the PTO changes.
I think MF is the only manufacture that had this. That's why I asked in the earlier post.
|
|
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
|
|
Gerald J.
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 12:34pm |
|
|
|
Dave King
Silver Level
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Location: OK
Points: 97
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 3:34pm |
|
|
|
DreaminGA
Silver Level
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Location: Elberton, GA
Points: 84
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 4:11pm |
|
Just to mix things up a bit, Kubota and other import tractors do have PTOs that are affected by transmission gear selection. I'm not sure about the newer ones, but the older Kubotas and Yanmars seem to have this. Some of those have multiple speed selectable PTOs to help match PTO speed with ground speed. Really affects performance and horsepower with flail mowers and other high load implements. Dream.
|
|
It wasn't me! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
|
|
Gatz in NE
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Points: 1037
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 4:22pm |
thanks for all the answers...it makes a lot more sense now.
All this discussion just reminded me of an incident many years ago when I was a young kid combining oats for a neighbor with his WD45 and 60.
He had told me to use the hand clutch if there was a need to stop, and of course I knew this as we had a D17.
Musta got real nervous when coming through a ditch and pushed in the foot clutch to slow down....totally forgot the hand clutch.
Man, I caught hell for doing that....although to this day, I don't know why he got so PO'd
This was my introduction to "ground-driven PTO" lol
|
|
