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Sagar 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Location: PA
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 Topic: Video Update # 2
Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:31am |
Hey again guys,
Here is a video with clips from me taking apart the engine.
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R.W
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Swanton, OH
Points: 2975
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:47am |
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Well at least now you know you need new pistons and seleves!
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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TractorKidPA
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Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Location: PA
Points: 17
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 10:08am |
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Well looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you. Keep us updated!
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Allis Chalmers 5050
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Dick L
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
Points: 5087
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 10:17am |
You might as well buy, beg or borrow an engine lift and engine stand. Unless you want a leaker you will need to pull the engine to put in new seals. Trying to work around that loader will be a bear also.
Good luck, it looks to me that you have a good overall tractor to work on.
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JimD
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Mounds, OK
Points: 2112
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 10:44am |
I agree, pull that engine. Get the crank milled, and order a kit. You will be back under way and know that the engine will last many years to come.
JimD
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Owner of OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543
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Alberta Phil
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Points: 3868
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 10:59am |
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Looks like a rebuildable engine. Get a rebuild kit with new sleeves and pistons and go to it. There are good suppliers on this site who can fix you up with everything you need. I would also suggest pulling that engine out to do it as it will be an awful fight with the loader on there, and it's less work to pull the engine than strip the loader off. Good luck with your project.
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Orange Blood
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Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
Points: 4053
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 1:00pm |
Looks like you might need to hone the #1 cylinder, but the rest should clean up pretty well?!?! :-D
That will be a great motor when you get done with her. You say you don't know much about this engine, just keep asking questions on here, you will get all the info you need. As for where to start, I agree pull the engine, and break her down to smaller parts, start by getting things boiled out, and then you know where to go from there. I think finding a good ALLIS service manual (not an IT manual) for that 45 would be a good place to start. Take lots of high resolution pictures, so you know how she should look when back together. The one good thing in your favor, is that of all the allis to restore the WD-45 is probably the easiest to get parts for. Also need to buy lots of presents for that girlfriend, she will be very helpful as the project progresses! :)
Edited by Orange Blood - 23 Mar 2011 at 1:01pm
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Sagar
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Location: PA
Points: 52
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 7:13pm |
Seems like I will need to get an engine stand. Can anyone suggest a decent one with a decent price? I would like to take apart the head, if I am calling it right (the piece with all the springs). How do I remove the springs?
Thanks
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Sagar
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Location: PA
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 7:15pm |
Oh yea and one more thing. Which cylinder is cylinder #1? The one next to the radiator or the one on te other side.
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allis restorer
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Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Location: Rib Lake, WI
Points: 184
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 7:18pm |
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yah the head is the part with the springs, which are valve springs, and they make a valve spring compresser to get the valves out of the head, and engine stands you can find at most auto parts stores
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Go orange or Go home!!
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Orange Blood
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Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
Points: 4053
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 7:45pm |
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Pretty much any engine stand rated for 750 lbs will handle that engine, the #1 cylider is in front, near the radiator, this is always the case on any engine, the V type engines is a little more tricky but for now, you are correct near the radiator. In order to get the springs off, you need to have a valve spring compressor, they make basically two types. 1. fits around the head, with some kind of lever to compress the spring, then you can take the spring clips out, 2. a screw type that can grip the spring, on top and bottom, that allows you to leave the head on. eaither type will work as far as I know, I have the type that straddles the head. the spring clips are located on top of the spring, around the valve stem, there should be two of them per valve. I don't think it is going to matter on your engine, but it is always a great practice to keep things in order of where they were on teh engine, i.e. the 1st valve it's spring, spring top, and clips should go back in the same place it came from, so the #1 position. Since you will be doing a ton of machine work on that engine, it will not be quite as important, but a good practice anyway. I use ziplock baggies for all of my valve parts, I just number them 1-8 in this case. Same goes for the rods, bearing caps, main bearing caps, and most all other parts where there are more than one of an item. More as you need it. Hope this helps
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Kenmare, ND
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:21pm |
Good progress! Like others have said, get yourself an engine stand, and pull the engine. It will make life MUCH easer! Get the block all taken apart, and then clean it up and have it "cooked out" (cleaned). Then the fun part, putting it all back together. From what I see, a new engine kit (pistons, sleeves, etc...) is the best bet. It will be a new engine once done and will be good for another 50 years. Get yourself a manual too, if you haven't already. The sleeves in the block come out if you didn't know that already, there is no machining the block, etc.... So it's really simple to rebuild. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Orange Blood
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Location: ColoradoSprings
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:40pm |
 Jacob (WI,ND) wrote:
........, there is no machining the block, etc.... |
I should clarify, what I was trying to say, I am not talking about milling the top of the block, What I was thinking it at least polishing the crank and cam, (may not be needed the bottom end looks fairly good, bu tmay need to grind the crank too) but the valves will need ground, the rocker arms and shaft will need polishing, the seats may need replacing, the manifold doesn't look like it leaked, but the gasket surface may need truing up. In my book that is a lot of machine work. I don't want to critisize your post, I hate it when others do it to me, just wanted to add some detail. I was joking about honing the #1 cylinder, but I am sure you knew that.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Location: Kenmare, ND
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:56pm |
Orange Blood wrote:
Jacob (WI,ND) wrote:
........, there is no machining the block, etc.... |
I should clarify, what I was trying to say, I am not talking about milling the top of the block, What I was thinking it at least polishing the crank and cam, (may not be needed the bottom end looks fairly good, bu tmay need to grind the crank too) but the valves will need ground, the rocker arms and shaft will need polishing, the seats may need replacing, the manifold doesn't look like it leaked, but the gasket surface may need truing up. In my book that is a lot of machine work. I don't want to critisize your post, I hate it when others do it to me, just wanted to add some detail. I was joking about honing the #1 cylinder, but I am sure you knew that. |
Oh, I didn't mean to criticize at all, sorry if it came out that way. I was mearly trying to give Allis an "Atta-boy" for its wet sleeve design, where with replacing the sleeves, it's a new engine again. Brilliant in my opinion! I totally agree with you, that some machining will probably be necessary, but with any luck, not on the block itself. Like a guy I know says, "we are on the same page, just looking at it different ways (one upside down)" LOL! Sorry for any confusion. And I was trying to focus on the first step of the project. Getting the block striped and cleaned and inspected to decide if it can be rebuilt. I know for newbies (especially ones that haven't rebuilt an engine before) it can seem like a daunting task. Just take it one step at a time, and we'll talk you through it!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
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Location: Jackson, WI
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:00pm |
If I were you, the first thing I would do is take the loader arms and bucket off and then back the tractor out from all of that mess. It will make it much easier to tackle the engine and then you can get the tractor up and running and take care of all of the issues, and then deal with putting the loader back up. If you don't have anything handy to pull the loader off, you could put a 6' step ladder on each side with a heavy piece of pipe or a 4 x 4 across the top. One on each side. Then put some rachet straps down to each arm on each side and put some slight tension on each one, and then hammer the pins out. Working on an engine with the loader on is almost impossible.
Looks like you had enough water get down there that froze that it blew a hole in the sleeve of the first piston. I have tore a few stuck engine apart, but only found one engine where the sleeve blew apart. Must have been water getting in there for quite some time.
Take your time, label things good and ask alot of questions on here. Many people on here are more then willing to share their knowledge.
I would get an engine stand from harbor freight. Unless you can find one at a local parts store. Most of them are sadly made in China, so I got one from Harbor Freight. works out for WD/WD45 engines. You will have to pull the clutch and flywheel off to mount it on there.
Take the loader off, remove the radiator and shroud and work your way back. You can get the engine out without removing the steering linkage. It's tricky and tight, but it will come out. Looks like you sprayed penetrating oil all over which is good. Make sure you hit the two bolts that hold the radiator down. They are behind the steering box, go up from the top of the frame rails into the bottom of the radiator. Those bolts can be a bear to get out sometimes and are hard to get any leverage on, especially the one by the steering shaft.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 10:13pm |
The engine on my D14 was much worse in every respect. I agree with the others. Pull the engine and do a major rebuild on it, and it will give you many years of good service.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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KC-WD45
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Location: Kansas City
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Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 11:21am |
Just a little inspiration for you. I wasn't raised around tractors or working on engines and was in the same boat as you but when you are done you will know every nut and bolt on that tractor and be pretty proud of it. Keep up the good work! You can find a engine stand and cherry picker on craigs list for a couple hundred bucks then sell them when you are done and cost you nothing.
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wkpoor
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Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 12:11pm |
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My approach to those projects is quite a bit different. First off before I would tear into a motor I would pretty much strip down everything around it. Most all that stuff is in need of repair or replace anyhow and its in your way. Next I power wash all of the exterior clean. If the buildup up is severe then I use oven cleaner or various degreasers to help break down the yrs of dried grease. After its all clean and dry then I start the tear down. Basically the engine is last thing not first for me in taking a tractor apart.
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Orange Blood
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Location: ColoradoSprings
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Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 12:27pm |
wkpoor wrote:
My approach to those projects is quite a bit different. First off before I would tear into a motor I would pretty much strip down everything around it. Most all that stuff is in need of repair or replace anyhow and its in your way. Next I power wash all of the exterior clean. If the buildup up is severe then I use oven cleaner or various degreasers to help break down the yrs of dried grease. After its all clean and dry then I start the tear down. Basically the engine is last thing not first for me in taking a tractor apart. |
That's a good point, I think sometimes we overlook the real beginning of the project, even though I bet we all wash them first, we do forget to mention it. Thanks for the catch.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 12:36pm |
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1) Remove loader
2) Remove radiator
3) Remove engine
4) Drain and flush out driveline, make sure the rear wheels turn nicely when spinning the clutch shaft in every gear
5) Find a decent, used running engine, plop it in, reassemble, install radiator and fire it up. Make sure everything is functional, put loader back on, and get to work with it.
6) Put old engine on engine stand, roll it to back of shop, and dismantle it on rainy days, give it a bolt-by-bolt rebuild during the wintertime.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
I got my experience first-hand, as did most everyone else here. We'll save you the cost and trouble, but only if you're willing to heed the voices of experience.
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