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CA Governor Spring Corrosion
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dfwallis View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023
Location: DFW
Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: CA Governor Spring Corrosion
    Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 5:06pm
The gov control spring is a bit pitted but does not appear stretched (I cleaned and painted it and it didn't really look that bad to me).  I assume that 70 years of corrosion COULD be a contributor to failure to pull RPMS above about 1/4.  How sensitive is it and how bad would corrosion have to be (theoretically :) for there to be that much effect?  (The throttle rod is being fully actuated.)
1952 CA13092
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Points: 20535 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 5:22pm
Assuming the governor/carburetor linkage is adjusted properly and assuming the governor spring is being 100% fully stretched when the throttle is wide open, and assuming you have an accurate tachometer to measure the top speed, if it is SLOW on RPM's you need a new AGCO spring, regardless of what it looks like.  High idle "No-Load" is 1900 RPM's.

Edited by DrAllis - 18 Aug 2024 at 5:29pm
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

Assuming the governor/carburetor linkage is adjusted properly and assuming the governor spring is being 100% fully stretched when the throttle is wide open, and assuming you have an accurate tachometer to measure the top speed, if it is SLOW on RPM's you need a new AGCO spring, regardless of what it looks like.  High idle "No-Load" is 1900 RPM's.

It is definitely fully stretched, the actuator is against the "stop", can't rotate any further.
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dfwallis View Drop Down
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 7:24pm
AGCO wants $62 for 70223569 :(
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Points: 4753 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 7:32pm
Do you want it to be right, or just kinda sort of?
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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dfwallis View Drop Down
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

Do you want it to be right, or just kinda sort of?

:) I'd like to be at least up to minimum spec.  I'm just not sure there isn't something else wrong in the governor itself.  It seems unlikely though.  I'd like to perform a couple more tests before I get a new spring.  I'd certainly want (and have been getting) OEM parts for critical things.  The hand clutch lining, springs, ball bearings, seats, and whatever else was replaced in the hand clutch were OEM parts.
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Points: 20535 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 8:25pm
High idle "no-load" is to be 1900 RPM. What do you have ??????
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dfwallis View Drop Down
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 8:41pm
It's barely 700 rpm.  Very slow.  I have idle and faster idle.
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Points: 20535 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 9:19pm
I can't imagine a governor spring is that bad to be 1200 RPM low. Either it is the wrong spring (not OEM) or there's something wrong with governor linkage adjustments.
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 9:27pm
It's definitely the original 70223569 part.  Thus far, I don't see any linkage adjustments to make.  The device that rotates and pulls the spring is making 100% of its rotational travel length and hitting the stops low and high.  The spring is stretched pretty good at max rotation, just not revving up much.  The anti-surge spring is brand new (the one that hooks over the manifold bolt).  It appears to be the correct one.  It's a pretty wimpy spring.  It's definitely weaker than the homemade one that was on there before.
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There are ZERO adjustment points on the governor to carburetor linkage. To "adjust" to the correct dimensions, the linkage must be bent to the proper position. Take that spring off that hooks on the manifold stud for now to see what it does without it.
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

There are ZERO adjustment points on the governor to carburetor linkage. To "adjust" to the correct dimensions, the linkage must be bent to the proper position. Take that spring off that hooks on the manifold stud for now to see what it does without it.

I'll run more tests when I return next month.
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Often when those unfamiliar with the BE/CE engines attach the "surge" spring, they have it working against the speed spring instead of just acting to dampen the motion of the carburetor rod.
  Also in the decades since the CA was new, who knows what could have been could have been "farmerized" by someone doing what they think might be right instead of referring to a service manual.
  I'm guessing that from your OP that there is no hint whatsoever of paint on the speed spring? There were many different springs used on the BE/CE governor throughout its different applications. The CA would have had a yellow paint line. A D15 series II has all the same governor parts and a white stripe of paint it has a no load speed near to 2500 and the D15 series II has an external stop bolt added to limit the no load speed back to spec. There also were clear, blue, red and a heavy wire spring without an inside plunger used. Then there was the special governor cover and external arm used on the BE/CE power units that was a high speed engine. How do you know your working with what is the correct CA spring?
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 7:38am
Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

Often when those unfamiliar with the BE/CE engines attach the "surge" spring, they have it working against the speed spring instead of just acting to dampen the motion of the carburetor rod.
  Also in the decades since the CA was new, who knows what could have been could have been "farmerized" by someone doing what they think might be right instead of referring to a service manual.
  I'm guessing that from your OP that there is no hint whatsoever of paint on the speed spring? There were many different springs used on the BE/CE governor throughout its different applications. The CA would have had a yellow paint line. A D15 series II has all the same governor parts and a white stripe of paint it has a no load speed near to 2500 and the D15 series II has an external stop bolt added to limit the no load speed back to spec. There also were clear, blue, red and a heavy wire spring without an inside plunger used. Then there was the special governor cover and external arm used on the BE/CE power units that was a high speed engine. How do you know your working with what is the correct CA spring?

When I ordered the new spring, I cross checked the AGCO part number and it matched.  It's appearance is identical to the one in the manual (not a very good picture though and doesn't give technical specs of the spring).  I (thought I) installed it per the service manual.  I guess not.


Edited by dfwallis - 19 Aug 2024 at 8:09am
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TAKE IT OFF FOR NOW !!
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dfwallis View Drop Down
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Points: 631 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 8:03am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

TAKE IT OFF FOR NOW !!

Yes.  However, I've decided that I have it installed incorrectly.  I believe that to be the problem.
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BINGO.
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