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Electric fan motors

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thendrix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Electric fan motors
    Posted: 01 Mar 2024 at 7:57am
We do something slightly similar to that. Each house has 4 exhaust fans. 1 fan in the front wall, 1 in the back wall, 2 on one side wall. While the chicks are young and we can run only 3 fans, we rotate the 2 side fans each cycle. While we're brooding, we have to run the end fans every cycle because we're a center brood house. We use petitions and curtains to shut off the front 25% and the back 25%. We have to run the end fans to keep air flow the same inside and outside of the brood area. I've had instances where we had a fan on the end quit while we were brooding and when we're pulling more air in the center and less on the ends the curtain will pull the petition over and the birds wind up going to the ends before they're ready. Doesn't happen often but when it does it's about like chasing greased pigs.

We also run "stir" fans. They are 18" fans mounted in the peak of the ceiling. When the exhaust fans shut off these fans run until the exhaust fans come on again. The air constantly moving inside the house keeps the litter almost too dry.

We could try running 1,2,3 then 2,3,4 then 3,4,1 then 4,1,2 after we "whole house", meaning after we take up the petition and let them have the ends. Don't know what the integrator will think but might try it and see.

Going back to the variable speed fans, the problem we run into is the integrators really like to listen to certain professors at certain universities that do research for the poultry industry. Now when you're doing research you want to prove your results. When you plug a variable speed fan into your research, you introduce a massive variable and it makes the results harder to replicate. From what I've been told, this is the reason why "research" shows we're better using standard 1725rpm motors instead of variable speed. It's BS but that's what I've been told. There are integrators that will allow and some even promote variable speed but ours isn't one of them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2024 at 7:07am
life of motors..quality of air...
been thinking about the 'hen house hell' and have a suggestion
Instead of running 2 fans for 30 seconds each, run ONE fan for a minute. The combined volume of air moved is the same BUT each motor doesn't get 'short cycled' and destroyed.
You said 36 fans, so if in one loooooog building, wire them up 'odds and evens'. #s 1,3,5,7,35 come on together then 2,4,6,36. That would be a better air moving pattern and distribute the 'wear and tear' on the motors and fan units evenly. I know you'll have to adjust for ammonia,but the idea is to have fewer fans on longer. It'll meet the guv regs(CFM/pound/hr ? ) and should save on repairs.

I did a similar setup for a bank with all electric heat and AC. Only two HVAC came on for 5 minutes. The pattern was 1,2 then 2,3 then 3,4 then 5,6 then 6,1. Loop repeats. was my first PLC program. Saved the bank 10K a month,so they were happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by thendrix thendrix wrote:

Capacitor specs:
Run capacitor C107558440048
15.0uF 370VAC/B 50/60Hz

I searched for this number and it didn't come up. Got a close number but the last 4 digits were wrong

Start capacitor C103237310113
189-227uF 125VAC 60Hz

Found several matches with this number in different sizes. I'll measure mine and see which one fits. I think I've got the start/run thing right. Seems kinda strange to me that the run capacitor has a higher voltage rating than the start capacity though


The run capacitor operates at a higher applied voltage, for a longer period of time, than a start capacitor.

For the RUN capacitor, Johnstone Supply catalog pg 138 shows thier G35-270 as Titan part POCV15A  Motor Run Capacitor, oval shape, 15MFD, 440v, height 2.75" width 2.75, depth 1.75" for $11.00

They list the same capacity 15MFD 440vac diam 1.75 height 3.25" in round form factor pg 140, G35-383, part PCRF15A, also $11.00

If your motor's failed capacitor is a Motor START cap, then replacing it wht a Motor Run will be death knell for it- they can NOT be interchanged of purpose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Lars(wi) Lars(wi) wrote:

Are these motors able be to oiled? If so, there is special ‘electric motor’ oil that should be used. Not just run of the mill motor oil, or 3-in-1 oil.


I won't say no they can't be but I've never seen an oil cup or hole that says oil or anything like that

Edited by thendrix - 29 Feb 2024 at 5:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 5:02pm
Are these motors able be to oiled? If so, there is special ‘electric motor’ oil that should be used. Not just run of the mill motor oil, or 3-in-1 oil.

Edited by Lars(wi) - 29 Feb 2024 at 5:03pm
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 4:07pm
dang 36 fans ! See where the 'qty discount' point is ! I used to buy computer parts in Quebec cheaper than here in Ontario and that's after shipping / taxes were added.

Also keep track WHICH fans are failing. Is it random or always 'the four on the south west wall' ?If the former..probably life of the parts, if latter, an 'environmental' issue ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 4:01pm
Thanks fellas. Definitely going to buy more than 1. I need 3 as we speak and have 36 exhaust fans on the farm so I'll probably buy 3 to start then after I'm sure they'll work I'll probably buy 10 at a time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 8:44am
START Capacitor...... you may want to try one RATED at 250V instead of 125 v.... should get longer life..





Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Feb 2024 at 8:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 8:38am
try www.grainger.com ! I did a quik chek...

They have several 'run capacitors', check the specs.
A higher voltage is better as well as higher 'max operating temperature' ( 85*C is typical).
 It's what will PHYSICALLY fit is kinda important.

Also buy more than ONE !! Shipping is same and always have a spare,that you won't need is way better than needing one Saturday night at 2AM...

https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/CAPACITOR-189-227MFD/p/WWG2MDR5
is a 'run one, 200MFD'.....


Edited by jaybmiller - 29 Feb 2024 at 8:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 8:30am
That "should be" a RUN Capacitor -------Its not the Part Number that is important..... its the 15 uF and the 370v spec.





Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Feb 2024 at 8:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 8:27am
Capacitor specs:

Run capacitor C107558440048
15.0uF 370VAC/B 50/60Hz

I searched for this number and it didn't come up. Got a close number but the last 4 digits were wrong

Start capacitor C103237310113
189-227uF 125VAC 60Hz

Found several matches with this number in different sizes. I'll measure mine and see which one fits. I think I've got the start/run thing right. Seems kinda strange to me that the run capacitor has a higher voltage rating than the start capacity though


Edited by thendrix - 29 Feb 2024 at 8:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 9:57pm
Tyler, the resistor across the terminals is called a 'bleeder resistor'.  it's function is to slowly discharge any energy that remains IN the capacitor, so that it won't be storing a whallop that'd blow your fingertips off if you touched it. 

Since it's a chemical device, one can charge a capacitor fully, then discharge it fully, then open up it's leads, and it will actually start to rebuild a partial charge, because the discharge process may dump a whole lotta current, it cannot dump it ALL, because it's a chemical device... some of that chemistry takes time to fully equalize.  The bleeder is there to drain off any charge that'd build up as a result of finishing equalization.

Most motor START capacitors are paper electrolytic type.  Most motor RUN capacitors are oil-filled types.  The former have considerable capacity, but cannot tolerate extended cycle times before overheating and erupting.  The latter are much, much more electrically robust under continuous cycling duty, albeit at a lower capacity than the electrolytic start type.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 5:45pm
Steve, I think I may have found a replacement that didn't show up the last time we looked. I'll have to measure the OD and be length to make sure it'll fit. And yeah we're looking into solar at the moment
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 4:44pm
not 100% guarantee.... butt...

How do you tell if a capacitor is a run or start capacitor?
1) Run capacitors are rated in a range of 3–70 microfarad (uF). Run capacitors are also rated by voltage classification. The voltage classifications are 370V and 440V. Capacitors with ratings above 70 microfarad (uF) are starting capacitors
Start capacitors usually have ratings above 70 µF, with four major voltage classifications: 125 V, 165 V, 250 V, and 330 V.


Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Feb 2024 at 4:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 4:42pm
Tyler.. it sounds like you need MORE GOVT rules and regulations..... Have they looked into BATTERY and SOLAR POWER ???  Wink  Thumbs Up

I feel for you man.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 3:26pm
Start  cap will have one wire going to the centrifugal start switch.
There 'should' be a wiring diagram inside the cover where the power wires go into the motor.
 All else fails ,google the make/model of the motor or post that info here...

as for source of caps... post the 'numbers' here, or picture... DIGIKEY is the largest electronic supplier in USA/CDA.... most stuff overnight for me......

sad you 'hands are tied'...as it'd be an easy swap over to more efficient/better air for the birds...... sigh....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 1:10pm
Got the capacitors out this morning. Unless I'm mistaken, the start capacitor is the one with a resistor soldered to the lugs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 1:07pm
Guys I'm impressed with the suggestions but most of these things aren't possible with our contract. We're not allowed to run variable speed fans and running a constant fan would make the chickens "huddle" and not eat which causes more problems. We run a minimum of 3 fans for 30 seconds per our contract. The USDA says less than that and we're in violation of our animal welfare agreement. Basically, our hands are tied as far as what we can use. I'm just looking for a source to replace start capacitors rather than entire motors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 12:21pm
I would not be starting a fan every 5 minutes and run for 30 seconds...Way too many startups. I would run ONE fan constant and keep the cycling down. If your running for 30 seconds you pulling way too much air.. Use 1/3 as many fans, or reduce the speed so they run for a few minutes... Would be nice to run ONE fan constant, and have a couple more kick in every 20 minutes and run for 5 minutes... etc.

I dont know how big your fans are.. But you might consider a SMALLER fan, or change belt drive on 1-2 fans toward the middle of the building so they pull fresh air from each end.. and run constant...


Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Feb 2024 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 12:09pm
My gut is telling me the the fans have too much CFM. Running a motor or 30 seconds is really hard on them,especially if driving a fan through a belt. They probably don't get up to speed before beiing shut down.

In your case having DC motors whose speed is controlled by ammonia concentration makes sense and is an easy system to design and configure. I'd have each fan on it's own PLC and sensor NOT an 'all-in-one' design. That way when a sensor fails,the others can take up the slack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 8:18am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

curious about the '5 minute ' timers...
Are you saying the fans 'cycle' is on for 5 minutes, then off for 5 minutes, 24 /7  ?
Trying to figure out how many starts and often you have ? The start switch wasn't made for a zillion cycles.Well water pump switches  fail this way.
Just curious if another solution might be more reliable ?


Yes and no. One cycle is 5 minutes. We set the fan run time according to the amount of ammonia in the air. For example, the first 2 days we run 3 exhaust fans 30 to 35 seconds every 5 minutes. By the end of the flock it'll be 4 fans and 2 1/2 to 3 minutes on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 7:19am
You might want to leave a few fans on CONSTANT so you get some ventilation and keep to ammonia concentration down ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 7:12am
curious about the '5 minute ' timers...
Are you saying the fans 'cycle' is on for 5 minutes, then off for 5 minutes, 24 /7  ?
Trying to figure out how many starts and often you have ? The start switch wasn't made for a zillion cycles.Well water pump switches  fail this way.
Just curious if another solution might be more reliable ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 7:09am
Yeah, the ammonia is a very quick killer... we had a strange weather day about 8 years back, and lost ventilation in our brooder bin, and it took out two dozen chicks.

The longer start time can be a couple of things, but foremost, the starting capacitor and it's centrifugal switch (they CAN get sticky and worn).

Another thing you CAN do, at the cost of a little full-flow volume, is reduce the drive ratio (increase the reduction) so that startup and full running load is slightly lower, hence quicker... and your peak (startup) and running power consumption will be reduced.  Since you're running it on a timed cycle, the full-flow performance is not critical in maintaining the habitat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 6:11am
Thanks again everybody. I'll see if I can get time to get a capacitor out today.

Dave, that's quite a detailed explanation. It's not my farm that motors have gone from 10 years to 2 just farms in general. At my in-laws farm, before it shut down, we were replacing motors in 2017 that were put into service in 1995. I certainly agree with you on dust. We wash fans after every flock just for this reason and each bearing gets a shot or two of grease after washing. My biggest issue with losing start capacitors is with the fans running on 5 minute timers and it taking 10 seconds to start rather than 2, we lose 8 seconds of ventilation every cycle which is 96 seconds per hour or approximately 38.5 minutes per day. Losing ventilation time can cause excessive ammonia and the wet floors like they show in the documentaries that make us look less than human.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JW in MO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2024 at 6:21pm
Get an amp clamp and check the amp draw of your fan while running, make sure it’s within the 20% of the “full load,” rating. Ran into a situation where I replaced a 3/4 Ho motor, same rating but different brand. Didn’t last very long, overheated and quit. Replaced it again with the same results, this time I had all three motors analyzed at a shop, turns out, the original motor was actually a 1/2 hp marked as a 3/4 due to the 5/8” shaft. After that, every fan motor I replaced was checked for amp draw after installation. I put a 1/2hp motor on with a bushing on the shaft and never lost another motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2024 at 7:08am
Leeson are industrial grade.  Grizzly are asian imports, and while better than something coming out of Harbor Freight, they're certainly not in the realm of Baldor, Dayton, or Century.

If you went from a 10 year lifespan to a 2 year, there's something else seriously wrong.  Start and run capacitors DO fail, but usually they fail because they've been either overloaded, overheated, or under-rated.  Don't go below 330v for a 240v circuit, lest it WILL have a much shorter service life.

Get a reflective tachometer, and put a piece of tape or dab of white paint on the motor sheave and take a measurement of the running RPM, and compare that to the NAMEPLATE RPM on the motor.  While a 60-cycle motor's synchronous speed (unloaded) will be either 3600, 1800, or (in the case of a 6 pole motor) 1200rpm, the LOADED speed will be shown as something like 3450 or 1725rpm.  These are the FULLY LOADED speeds, and the DIFFERENCE between loaded speed and synchronous speed is called "SLIP".  If the loaded motor's RPM falls BELOW that point, you'll have excessive motor heating going on.

Usually, in big ventilators, the bearings in the blower get draggy, and the drum or flights (blades) accumulate a fine layer of dust, and when this happens, the motor load comes up considerably.  There's two things I'd check before dismissing the motor as a problem:

First is a visit from a pressure washer- that cuts off the dust layer and cleans up the airflow pathway.

Second, is a check of the bearings, and a full loading of fresh and proper grease.

These two things are the most likely problems that would cause a whole bunch of fans to start exhibiting problems after years of service... and the latter (grease) would be a most likely cause of a simultanious loss of performance... specifically, the TYPE of grease used.  What often happens, is a guy comes through with good intentions, and gives all the bearings a couple pumps of grease...   and the bearings run great.

One year, a guy comes through, gives 'em all grease, and again, they run great.

Six months later, the motors start to run warm... and by the end of the second year, they're all having difficulty.

The element that started it wasn't that they got greased on regular basis, but that the guy coming through had a DIFFERENT KIND of grease in his gun.

The grease that you normally have in your grease gun of 1970 would've been a silicon or sodium-based wheel bearing grease... because that would've been the most commonly used grease in farm machinery...  but nowdays, the most common is an NGLI-2 Lithium based grease.

If you take a bearing that's been running on one base of grease for 40 years, and you shoot in a DIFFERENT type, a chemical reaction occurs... Saponification... where the two greases' base metals electrolytically react, and become basically stone.

After that, you can try to add as much grease as you want... the bearings will NOT spin freely... they'll drag.

I don't think your motor problem is a motor problem, I think it's a motor load problem- the loading has changed... and you'll probably find that the running RPM is wrong, thus, your motors are overheating.

I would NOT remove all the ventilation motors and replace them with DC drives or AC VFDs... that's a significant increase in technology that, in the event of serious electrical excursion (like a utility line problem, or a lightning strike) could take out ALL your ventilators at once.  The simplicity of a synchronous AC induction motor makes it much more robust against such things.  A simultanious loss of all ventilators on a hot day could result in the loss of your whole flock.


Edited by DaveKamp - 27 Feb 2024 at 7:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2024 at 7:04am
Welcome to the World of CONS.
yes, old skool motors ran for decades. the 35 year old ,1/2HP furnace fan  motor  I pulled from my 96% eff furnace still runs (only downgraded to a 93% eff fce for insurance ).
While the 'new tech' DC motors have better control,they are cheaper to build,cost more and need a 'computer' to run them.

I had a look, I can buy 1/2HP TEFC motor for $240, or 1HP for $300,both made in China,of course. neighbour had a well pump 'go'( indoor.cistern use), it looked brand new...krapped out, no parts available( starter ),sigh....

Ask about replacement parts ! friend has $2000 exercise bike,asked me to fix it, needs a $5 part.If under warranty,it's replaced. it's NOT  ,so now LANDFILL !!

BTW caps don't like the heat ! They 'dry up' internally and fail. If you can source 'industrial duty' caps buy them. They have a better 'temperature range' unlike the 'residential' ones.
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2024 at 6:19am
I belong to a group that builds blacksmiths power hammers.
The Leeson motors seem to hold up best as far as I’ve read.
Have you looked at surplus center for capacitors and motors?
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thendrix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2024 at 2:21pm
I started to hear about variable speed fans a few years back. Now we're starting to hear about variable speed DC motors on feed lines and fans
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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