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RF garage 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2024
Location: pennsylvania
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 Topic: to buy or not to buy??
Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 12:26pm |
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hello to all who know, i have an ac 210, had for 8+ yrs been awesome and love it. my question is this; i want to stay brand loyal and am in the market for a smaller tractor of same vintage (190 xt, 200...need 540 pto for smaller jobs) but every used one i find has power director/trans issues, jumping out of gear problems etc. i am self employed running my own tractor repair and auto repair shop but i am by no means an expert in all, but im wondering if i should let this deter me from purchasing one of these tractors if its in real nice shape?? is this a major hurtle to overcome on these tractors?? or fairly simple fixes with a little wrenching knowledge?? thanks!
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victoryallis
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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: Ludington mi
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Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 1:28pm |
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Look into a 6080.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 6:45pm |
 victoryallis wrote:
Look into a 6080. |
A FIAT tractor with an Allis engine and cosmetics.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Michael V (NM)
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Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 6:54pm |
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Are you keeping the 210? Or looking to trade?
Be on the lookout for a 200 with the dual pto,
To find one without any problems (transmission/ PD) be ready to pay a premium price.
A fixer-upper might be ok, if ya can get by until ya get it fixed..make price adjustments accordingly
If your looking into doing repairs yourself, they are fairly simple machines to work on, get a shop manual, a A-C manual will be more helpful than I-T, but either one will work..
My main hurdle is just getting started....
Edited by Michael V (NM) - 13 Jan 2024 at 6:59pm
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 7:01pm |
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My experience...fixer uppers cost as much or more in the end. Pay the piper and get a good one to begin with. There are some out there yet. You miss out on the time and labor it extracts from your life....who needs that?
Edited by SteveM C/IL - 13 Jan 2024 at 7:03pm
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victoryallis
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Location: Ludington mi
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Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 7:07pm |
PaulB wrote:
victoryallis wrote:
Look into a 6080. |
A FIAT tractor with an Allis engine and cosmetics. |
And what’s wrong with that?
We got 5 of them. One’s knocking on 12,000 hours, another 10,500 the 3rd reads 6500 but based on condition I’d say it’s 16,500. Back when we had PTO batch dryer could get 22 hours in a tank of fuel.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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AC720Man
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Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 9:02pm |
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They are very good tractors, our 6060 has been very reliable since it was purchased new by our father. I have a 190XT and it’s a great tractor. Find a nice series III or a 200. As said above they are fairly easy to work on unless it has transmission issues. They are very reliable unless they are abused. Always come to a complete stop when changing to a different gear. The power director allows shift on the fly from lo to hi, hi to low in each gear. The 6060,6070,6080 has synchronized gears so it can be shifted between its four gears on the fly. Going between hi and lo requires stopping.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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WF owner
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 7:27am |
Most of the AC tractors that won't stay in gear are the result of either operator abuse or ignorance. If the transmission was abused or neglected, there is a good chance the transmission is not the only part.
Just something to think about...
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DSeries4
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 8:33am |
As others have said, jumping out of gear was the result of operator abuse. Your concerns about bad power directors are unfounded though. They run in oil and can take a lot of abuse. No problems if they do need to be worked on. They are quite easy to work on and do not cost much to repair either.
There are lots out there that do not have any issues.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 8:41am |
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Tough call. While a 6080 is a great 83 HP tractor with its own funky PTO system, it sure ain't no 94++ HP 190XT or 200 tractor power or weight wise.
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bigal121892
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 9:47am |
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Personally, I would try to find a nice 3020.
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DougG
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 10:38am |
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6080,, 12 speed transmission, shift them like a truck - have to get them balanced right, way light on the front , but can be fixed, keep it over 1800 rpms when seriously working them ,, and you have a nice tractor- but -I really like a good ole One Eighty, that 301 diesel sings a sweet song,, if it jumps out of gear and you know it - its no big deal - watch on the online auction sites for retirement auctions , been some nice deals lately
Edited by DougG - 14 Jan 2024 at 10:49am
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soggybottomboy
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 10:52am |
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Look for a decent 7000. That is a well built tractor with more speeds than a 200.
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Leon B MO
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 12:17pm |
Just a thought, many 185's have the 2 speed 540/1000 pto. Or if you don't need the 1000 pto at all on your new purchase any 180 or 185. It does seem that XT's and 200's are priced high even for one that looks pretty rough. It really depends on your situation as to what tractor works best for you.
Edited by Leon B MO - 14 Jan 2024 at 12:23pm
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Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
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victoryallis
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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: Ludington mi
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 3:33pm |
DrAllis wrote:
Tough call. While a 6080 is a great 83 HP tractor with its own funky PTO system, it sure ain't no 94++ HP 190XT or 200 tractor power or weight wise. |
Lot of 6080’s dyno 100+ my good one turned 106 when she got rebuilt. Only negative is they don’t lug. Spent way way to much time on a D17 growing up to buy a field tractor with a big stick power director.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 5:17pm |
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BUT, they are in a different class size, weight, HP, etc. Nice tractor but not the same class !!
Edited by DrAllis - 14 Jan 2024 at 5:49pm
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Unit3
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 8:25pm |
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Or go the other way. 7010-7060 black frame or 8010 - 8070 ps.
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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victoryallis
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 8:29pm |
Unit3 wrote:
Or go the other way. 7010-7060 black frame or 8010 - 8070 ps. |
Whatever it is it needs to have black on it.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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RF garage
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 8:33pm |
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Michael V……..yes def keeping the 210. Il never sell er. Il continue using it for all my heavy tillage and 2 row chopper. The 200 is def perfect hp and weight im looking for……(hauling wagons, small spreader, square baling with kicker wagon behind…..those type things) I’ve got a 60 horse case for blower, teader, rake, little stuff
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RF garage
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 8:42pm |
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Also forgot to ask, anyone know a good place to search for a good used one??? Tractor house is very limited
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WF owner
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 9:07pm |
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You should ask captaindana. He's not too far from you and he sure finds some nice tractors!!!
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dp7000
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 9:11pm |
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If you’re thinking 200, I’d look at a 7000. A more modern replacement for a 200
and I think really cheap horsepower. Especially black belly models.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 9:15pm |
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What are your intentions with this tractor? Baling hay, tillage? I can’t find anything my XT doesn’t do well. It’s nimble, best square baling tractor in my opinion, console control and a big open station makes it easy to see what your doing. Has plenty of weight as Dr Allis said. Every tractor has it’s place where it performs best, the XT just does so many things so well which makes it a great all around tractor.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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WF owner
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Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 9:26pm |
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I loved my 7000. They had independent PTO, a three speed "shift-on-the-go" and didn't seem to have the popping out of gear problem. The 301 was great on fuel. I had 20.8 x 38 rice and cane tires. It was great in the mud.
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NEVER green
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Posted: 15 Jan 2024 at 9:12am |
bigal121892 wrote:
Personally, I would try to find a nice 3020.
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A non turbo pooch??? Cringe.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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bigal121892
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Posted: 15 Jan 2024 at 5:51pm |
NEVER green wrote:
bigal121892 wrote:
Personally, I would try to find a nice 3020.
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A non turbo pooch??? Cringe. |
Had two for many years, nothing wrong with them. But you do get live PTO, wet disc brakes, inboard planetaries, synchro transmission, larger selection, and you can still get parts.
Edited by bigal121892 - 15 Jan 2024 at 5:53pm
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NEVER green
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Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 8:50am |
bigal121892 wrote:
NEVER green wrote:
bigal121892 wrote:
Personally, I would try to find a nice 3020.
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A non turbo pooch??? Cringe. |
Had two for many years, nothing wrong with them. But you do get live PTO, wet disc brakes, inboard planetaries, synchro transmission, larger selection, and you can still get parts.
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Most non turbo diesels are pooches. Had friends bring over 4020 and 856 and threw them on blower, humbled my friends after comparing it to the XT, they lugged down and used more fuel.
This was my friends first introduction to a turbo. I would never own one.
Brother in law owns a 4020, 3020 and complained of parts NLA.
Edited by NEVER green - 16 Jan 2024 at 8:54am
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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Jordan(OH)
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Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 4:42am |
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210 will run a baler or small spreader just fine with pto adapter.
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DanielW
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Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 7:36am |
I'm jumping into this a little late. As mentioned, the PD's are seldom an issue in my (albeit limited) experience. The tranny jumping - a little more concerning, but not Earth-shattering. The good news is that if you do most of the Allis service bulletin steps, you can usually stop the jumping issue, and you can do this without getting into major tranny work. If you have the parts you can easily do it in a day from the top without having to split or tear apart anything. This involves:
- Shift fork replacement (all the new ones these days, even the aftermarket ones, are cast in the newer profile which has a little more beef and shifts a little deeper)
- Deep shift rail. Unfortunately Agco stopped offering these about 5 years ago, but it's not a big deal to modify your old one or make a new one. Actually, it's better to modify/make your own: The deep shift rail Allis/Agco offered only moved the engagement position by 0.060". It's better to move it more like 0.100" to 0.125". You can modify your existing shift rail - some folks talk about doing with a grinding wheel, but using a ball-nose end mill for the detent position will give you better/smoother engagement. I had a new one machined out of 1045 shaft and then sent for heat-treating.
- Extra detent spring in to keep it more positively engaged.
There's about a 98% chance doing these steps will solve any gear jumping issues you find. If not, you have to dig into it a little more, and possibly replace gears (and preferably the shift couplings with the newer ones, though I think Agco also stopped selling the new coupling as well).
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 190/200 if I needed one and found one for the right price. I wouldn't even hesitate to buy one with gear jumping issues as I know the above steps can probably fix it with minimal cost/effort, but I'd certainly expect to pay a fair bit less for it.
The gear jumping issue is always a touchy subject. True, if they're not abused and are always shifted gently from a stop they don't cause an issue. But, comparing my 180 and Ford 5000 (similar sized tractors from similar eras), the Allis has always been treated pretty average. Definitely not babied, but definitely not abused-to-heck either. It eventually developed the gear jumping issue. The 5000 on the other hand has had the holy heck abused out of it, with at least 3X the hours on it. Not only used for field work, but also for four decades of the toughest hardwood logging/skidding work you could imagine, and it still shifts like butter without issue. I like the Allis more and would rather spend a day on it, but I have to begrudgingly concede that they could definitely have done better on the tranny.
Edited by DanielW - 17 Jan 2024 at 7:45am
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