Looking for idler dimension:

On my 11B I cannot locate a specification for the clearance between the front idler mounting brackets, and the slide bars these bear against. With the front blade elevated I have about 5/16" clearance and that I know is excessive. I cannot tell if there are shims under the slide bars or not, nor can I find allowable dimensions for the parts that bear against one another.

Regardless I'll have to break the tracks to facilitate repairs but I'd like to know what I'm working with, (or for) up front. Any ideas to normal working clearances?

Thanks,

Hi Mel;

The attachment is the cover page from the undercarriage service manual I have for the tractor. It does not appear to be missing any pages but does not show any procedure to adjust the open gap between the idler brackets, and track frame slide bars. There are procedures for adjusting and centering the idlers between the track frame slide pads and that is about it. There is no chart of fitment tolerances other than a .060 measurement from the idler to the upper slide bar sides indicating the idlers would be centered in the fitment.

This page is what the service manual procedures guide to adjust for:

To me it would seem through normal operation and wear the upper, and lower slide bars would wear as would the idler brackets from track release action/operation creating a "gap" between the working parts. This "gap" would be shimmed closer by adding shims beneath the wearing surface of the slide bars and the track frame weldment(s).  The only reference to these is to replace the shims with the like number originally under the slide bars. Is this not a maintenance item? There would have to be a slight gap to these working parts for the track release to operate correctly, but I've not seen a gap anything bigger than maybe 1/8" in the past? New dozers were tighter than that. When I operate the machine fore, and aft, the idler brackets "dance" around a bit on the track frame. This is what put me on the path to finding the culprit.

From the lack of printed matter to address what I'm looking for, and with assumption I'm not missing any information from the service manual, I'll need to weld and build up some parts and machine back to what I think is proper fitment? Of course this is after track and possible track frame removal.

Tractor runs and performs, (from my limited exposure) far too well to not give it the care it deserves.

As always thanks for the help and guidance with this tractor. It's going to be with me a lot of years and it will be maintained well as it's my way.

 

I had seen that but I thought what they are referencing is shims shown as #'s 20 in this attachment? There is no reference to how many in count, or thickness needed at all. The way it is worded it reads, (to me) the brackets supporting the idler shaft are being adjusted to the clearances listed with the shims denoted as #8 in the procedure. This appears to be a clearance adjustment to the sides of the slide bar(s). I'll call this a horizontal adjustment where I'm really looking for a vertical adjustment of the slide bars.

I was wondering if I would need to either build up, or weld in additional material to bring back down to correct dimension(s). Sounds like I'm on the correct path with this. I really cannot see what I'm working with as both the push arms and tracks block easy straight on view. However the clearance I see between the idler bracket(s) and slide bars really appears excessive. Your comment about the parts not wearing evenly makes perfect sense to me so those slide bars are probably not square shouldered any longer and along with wear in the idler brackets, allowing the oscillation of the assemblies I've seen.

I see no independent movement of the idler wheel from the support structures at all so assuming the roller bearings are tight and serviceable. There is also no leakage in any rollers or bearings I've been able to ascertain. Have some wear in the rollers and track chain but nothing needing attention as of yet.

I tried looking at MinnPar's website several days ago and thought it was just me as I could not access it either.

Glad to know I have the correct manual. When I have the tractor broken down I'll heavily photograph the working parts and send you copies. I used to build up wear items like what I suspect and built a portable surface grinder for the task to renew dimensions. The welding and grinding was the easy part; the setup is what took time. 

Golly, certainly happy this horse isn't dead yet as I have another question.....

Here is a snip out of the parts manual. Item #12 shows, or annotates the slide bar shims and denotes to use as needed. It also states, (early units). Is this to say it is possible my tractor does not use shims under these slide bars and this could be the analogy of why I cannot see them? This would mean later production units had engineering design changes throughout the production run to streamline manufacturing processes. It could mean thicker slide bars, or closer manufacturing tolerances to the idler brackets themselves.

The photo rendition is not very clear as are many in this soft copy manual I have. Is it possible you have a soft copy that is a bit "smarter" in quality? This parts manual leaves a bit to interpret at times.

As always: Thank you.

 

Well dammit. Those shims are denoted as #9, not #12 as I typed with a quantity of 12 in total. Sorry about that although the error was picked up upon readily.

We were going to go down there this weekend but it looks like that is postponed till next. Was looking forward to making a little progress so I can get some "seat time", but I have to remain anxious as the command decision is not in my favor.

Thanks,

Those clearances for a Fiat Allis 10 are 0.5 - 1.0 mm

Too much clearance is NOT good for the adjuster assemblies etc further back

Thanks Ian. I'm not really one to operate anything with known deficiencies or problems unless very slight. This area of concern I'd never seen before and is readily apparent when looking for things out of sorts. With each grouser bar either touching, or clearing the ground when moving the tractor, I could see the idler support assemblies on either side moving around. Having never seen this in the past, (that I remember) immediately called it into question.

Going down there this weekend it looks like. Kiddos are all finishing up with spring, and Easter breaks from schools, so things should get back to the dull roar of normalcy around here.

Thanks kindly,