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Ray54 
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Location: Paso Robles, Ca
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 Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 11:53am |
Not familiar with the engine in the Case but some diesel are prone to slobber fuel and carbon from running at idle and low temperature. So in some cases slobber may not be deal killer, but it sure could be.
The temp of the exhaust of each cylinder should give good induction of a dead cylinder.
Another way to tell by listing is to loosen a fuel injector line. Do them all one at a time it should sound the same on any 3 of 4. But sound doesn't change on one you know it is dead. |
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:44am |
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Amos, What do you mean check the "runner" next to the exhaust manifold?
They did have to jumper on the starter because the start switch does not work and also gave it a small shot of starter fluid to get it to fire. It's been sitting outside and it's very cold here in Northeast Ohio pretty much everyone that I've gone to look at has had to use starter fluid to get to fire and run. I don't know if the these symptoms could mean that head gasket is bad and that's all it is?
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 27 Jan 2022 at 5:47am
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:19am |
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I can tell whether a gasoline engine is missing but an older 4 cylinder diesel like this is noisy to begin with when running. I do have a laser temperature gauge I can check that with and I appreciate the info. To me it almost sounded like it had a backfiring pop but not the entire engine like on a gaser it almost sounded like three cylinders were running normal and one was kind of making a different bang when it came up and maybe it's the one that has dark fluid coming out of the manifold because the injector is not working correctly and all it is is that? I'm going to have a experienced diesel mechanic look at it when I go back.(sounds like from what one of you guys said is that if it's black like it looks like but it's probably just unburnt diesel) Thanks for the info fellas
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 27 Jan 2022 at 5:20am
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Amos
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Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:06am |
If you can't tell from the sound of the engine if it is missing or not then I would just check the temperature of each runner on the exhaust manifold beside the head. one, or more, will not be the same temperature like 75 degrees colder or something like a big number. Could be the head gasket, but i doubt it would start that good if the head gasket is leaking. A harbor freight laser temperature finder would set you up pretty cheap to check it out. An easy engine to overhaul if that is all that wrong with it. Best way to know what is leaking is to put it on your finger and smell or taste it oil well its slippery and smells like oil, anti freeze tastes sweet and is more tacky and less slippery than oil. You are looking at machines that require a substantial amount of work, and will cost you money for parts. You might want to look at something that nots close to its death bed, but costs a little more. The problems that you are asking about are only the ones you are seeing, rest assured there are more on machines in the conditions you describe.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 9:08pm |
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normally excess fuel burns BLACK... excess oil burns GREY.... burning antifreeze is WHITE..... its hard to tell oil from water on some ... SMELL what it is.... look at exhaust pipe for water or BURNT OIL.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 7:35pm |
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I'm looking for help not criticism please. I do not own any diesels so I don't know what to look for and I'm hoping to gain some info on a 4-cylinder diesel that's from the mid 70s, thanks Matt
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 26 Jan 2022 at 7:41pm
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Dave76
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Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:57pm |
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OMG Run Forrest Run NO. THE OTHER WAY!!!
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:42pm |
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It looks like oil but from what I've read it's hard to decipher oil from fuel? ( It looks like motor oil to me) looks to me like white smoke- not really terrible...)
How can I tell for sure if it's running on all 4 cylinder s?
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 26 Jan 2022 at 5:43pm
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Amos
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Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:06pm |
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Oil or Fuel? what is the color of the smoke coming out the exhaust? Does it run on all 4 cylinders?
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 4:56pm |
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Update on this, I passed on that one that had transmission issues and found another 580b diesel that has no transmission issues but higher hours (8900 showing) My only concern with this one is one of the four cylinders has oil or at least what looks like oil spurting out from the exhaust manifold? How can I diagnose what seems to be the issue? It seems to start run drive and operate normal. Thanks Matt
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:25am |
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You are asking for trouble. If you can't afford a good one to start with you can't afford this one either. More than likely you will put as much money in this one to make it whole and all the headaches getting it there. Remember what Dirty Harry said....Do you feel lucky?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:21am |
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If its not selling too fast, then offer even less and see if he takes it..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:09am |
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No it's definitely not something I would rely on for income. It would be a purchase that I make and would need to work on it as I can to fix it up. It starts very easily runs great and have cylinder leaks but all of them do at the age of it. I plan on repacking the cylinders myself. You would think that if a shift fork broke off it would fall down into the gears and not allow it to move at all or have major grinding horrible sounds when moving and this one doesn't so it leads me to believe maybe something else like what you said. This one is the best that I've seen in a long time as far as the tires and it's ability to lift and dig is very strong so I believe the hydraulic pump is good.
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Codger
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Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 7:20am |
Resealing a shuttle is not difficult or expensive. However it does have wear parts and if they are damaged or worn out, can get expensive. You don't plan to use the tractor day in and day out so if willing to do the work, the impact is significantly less than someone that would rely upon it for income.
The transmission issue could be and probably is very minor such as a broken pin, or poppet ball/spring issue. Possibly the shift rails of the transmission are either worn or their bushings are worn out. When losing two gears as mentioned, it's usually shifting fork related and this is usually not difficult to facilitate repairs on but much easier when the transmission is removed.
$2500.00 to split that tractor seems high but there is a lot of labor involved and you really need to have either overhead support, or specialty jacks/cribbing for the front half of the tractor. The front half likes to roll over to the side once it's lost it's mountings to the rear half so don't plan to use a simple floor jack and block to support it.
When I purchased my 580C it was in response of being told by the service manager at the local JI Case dealership they were a better tractor than the 580B series citing the shuttle problems. I never had an ounce of trouble from the machine so no direct experience making repairs; only routine servicing.
If it were me and it's not, I would probably not purchase this machine as it appears the owner is either unaware, has mislead, or misrepresented the machine from what you have posted. You have to keep in mind many times the initial low purchase price is just the introductory fee and sometimes it's best to look around before "diving in".
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 6:50am |
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It's a difficult decision because if I fix the shuttle shifter it does have two forward and one reverse gears that work so my thought is can I use it for a while if I get the shuttle shifter fixed the way it is? These aren't very common to find in the diesel great running version that it is and the front loader works great. I asked a local shop how much it would cost and they said it could cost $2,500 just to split it and that doesn't fix it That's just to split it. Then he said you could get into thousands and thousands of dollars? I think he was trying to make it sound way worse than what they typically take to fix so that I would buy a newer version that he has available for $19,000! I don't have that kind of cash but I could get this one and slowly fix it up if I decide. I took my hydraulic pump off my Alice Chalmers CA and rebuilt it so I believe I can fix the shuttle shifter valve assembly myself
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Amos
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Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 6:28pm |
My guess is the shuttle valve is your problem, with the shuttle transmission anyways, mine leaked oil out one of the spools when I bought it and I took it part and put seals and o rings into it. When I was in the case dealer later talking to their service manager and mentioned I did that he about fell out of his chair. He told me that they never do that because those valves are notorious for acting up and when they have one not acting normal they replace it with one they have and if it works right then they just get a new one an put it on. Mine is still working and does not leak...maybe i just got really lucky!!! As for you only having two gears that will be a complete tear down, engine, loader and shuttle transmission will have to come off/out to get to the 4 speed...lots of labor....lots...
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Codger
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Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:51pm |
If able to do the work yourself, maybe, but still doubtfull.
If unable to do the work yourself, would not be a consideration.
The 580b series had a "twin disc" unit that was known to be troublesome with high hours.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:27pm |
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The seller is willing to take $1,500 off but I don't know if that would be enough to split one of these and get it fixed or not?
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:23pm |
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So the 580B construction king that I went to look at and test out today has issues with the transmission which scare me(it only has two working gears out of the four), it's shuttle shifter did not work correctly.
To fix these issues do they need split in half and what is the cost on something like that?(it seemed very random as to when you could get it to go forward and reverse with the shuttle shifter) of course the person selling it said it just needs the linkage fixed and adjusted but they did say the transmission would need fixed
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 20 Jan 2022 at 2:25pm
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 9:03pm |
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Township had a 580B back in the day....would run all day and burn 11 gal
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Amos
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Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 4:08am |
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My front pump coupler, from the crank pully on the engine to the hydraulic pump, was seized when I bought mine, still is, its hard to change the fan belt that way but makes no difference to the way it runs.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:49pm |
 HudCo wrote:
front pump coupler is probley about shot we just done about a year ago for a guy one side was rusted and seized bad |
Who's front pump coupler are you referring to? These posts get so turned around that it's difficult to follow who someone is talking about after a while... Thanks
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HudCo
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:15pm |
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front pump coupler is probley about shot we just done about a year ago for a guy one side was rusted and seized bad
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Amos
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 5:45pm |
I have had my 580B for about 25 years. In that time I have put 6000 hrs on it myself. It had 3400 on the hour meter when I bought it. I had to overhaul the torque converter when I bought it as it was slipping. Had the head gasket go about 5000 ours on the meter and did the injection pump about 1000 hours after that as it was leaking around the shafts when cold winter came. Pins bushings and seals in the hydraulic cylinders. Don't rebuild the steering cylinders when they start to leak, replace them as they wear inside the cylinder and will bypass. Its also cheaper to buy aftermarket cylinders than case seal kit for steering...my engine is 200 cu inch diesel, A great running engine, very good on fuel, Shuttle transmission can be one of two. A clutch and shuttle transmission or a torque converter and shuttle behind that with a four speed manual so you have four forward and four reverse gears either set up,
If you want one that is easy to work on buy a c or later as they re much easier to work on engine or shuttle or transmission. On the B you take the engine out to work on any one of those and the loader has to come off. They fixed that on the C with a short driveshaft you can remove to get the trans out or the shuttle or the 4 speed, not ter th entire backhoe to pieces to get to them
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ac fleet
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 2:50pm |
INJECTION PUMP FAILURE!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol -- They are prome to that! Got 2 old 68 -- 580ck's here and both ate the injection pumps, and thats the only downfall I know of on them.
Second on the list would be the clutch UNLESS you have the converter drive in it which 1 of mine does and I never liked the converter drives on anything!
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http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:18pm |
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I dont know how the 580 works, but on our 530, you have 3 "gear levers"..... On is the transmission and you choose 1-2-3-4 gear.... BIG Second lever off the the left is FWD- REV.. so you leave it in 1st gear when loading and just use the F-R shuttle to change directions... Third lever off to the right is HI-LO... we never move that.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:13pm |
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Okay I'm not sure what a shuttle shift is but I will try to do some research and none of my other tractors are a diesel so I'm not sure what to look for on them for problems? He claims that it doesn't smoke but I thought most diesels do?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:12pm |
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old cracked hoses, leaks , worn pin bushings, general SLOP in linkage.... and see if it Shuttles FWD- REV without problem, stays in gears without jumping out ... tire condition ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:08pm |
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Right that's what I'm trying to figure out is what exactly to look for wear and tear otherwise. He says that he bought it from the original owner on a farm so that could mean anything. He did say that it had a new injection pump and battery installed recently
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 12:37pm |
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Like Myron said, $5-7000. is your range.. A lot depends on Location, Condition, and how BAD you want it.. If you dont get it and he sells it for $7K to someone else, what are your other options ? .......... 6000 hours could be a lot of hours on a small diesel motor, depends on how it was used.. Look at other wear and tear to determine.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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