This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | ||||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
Oil Bath Air Cleaner ?? |
Post Reply |
Author | |
FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 7:58pm |
Is it a safe "assumption" that the oil bath filter was due to the lack of a "dry" filter ? If so, were the model "T'S" in the early years filtered with the oil bath ? I recall "dumping " the canister on the WD, but not on the D17 (series 2)??
|
|
Sponsored Links | |
AaronSEIA
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Mt Pleasant, IA Points: 2533 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Oil bath at the time was the best way. I don't think the D17 had a dry filter till the series 3. Maybe 4. Series 2 is for sure oil bath. Some say it's still the best at filtering air. AaronSEIA
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19504 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Not sure I fully understand the question, but here goes: D-17 series 3 and 4 were dry type air filters as were D-15 series 2. Also D-19 and D-21's were dry type. ALL hundred series were dry type (160-170-175-180-185-190-190XT-200-210-220). Everything else is oil bath, as was your D-17 series 2.
|
|
FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks, my ?? was mainly "was there no dry filter" technology previous to the mid 60's
|
|
LionelinKY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Radcliff,KY Points: 695 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I believe that the technology was there since most, if not all, automakers were using dry air filters by that time. Most likely was just an issue of acceptance and utilization of the technology. Oil bath air filters had been around for decades and used by everybody. Some just switched sooner than others.
|
|
"My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic"
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19504 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Oil bath air cleaners required more attention. Technically that oil cup was to be changed DAILY !! Well, that never happened at our place !!! Some dry types had an automatic dust unloader to make attention much less.
|
|
MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A lot of old engineers would not change their minds. MACK
|
|
Ed (Ont)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1217 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Oil bath air cleaners worked pretty good. Probably a lot cheaper to maintain than the paper ones. Maybe a little less wasteful than the paper ones. Air filter on a big truck now is $80 to $150 dollars. Probably same for the big new tractors.
|
|
AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4637 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think the oil bath does a better job at dust collection but also thought daily cleaning was kinda ridiculous unless you was in a dusty field day in and day out disking or plowing. Buying cheap oil made it more practical. I certainly don’t change it that often on my WD especially if its not dirty. You would go through a lot of oil in a year if you go by the owners manual. I would compare it to my wife’s Rainbow vacuum cleaner that uses water as the filter. It does an incredible job of filtering dust/dirt in the tank. There is absolutely zero dust expelled back into the air as it cleans. Similar results with the oil bath. Actually a very well engineered way of keeping dirt out of the carb. Now I’m wondering, could water replace the oil? Or would it splash too much? Probably so since oil is heavier.
|
|
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
|
|
Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 6630 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The water would evaporate away in short order.
|
|
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7980 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
In the days of model T's there were no oil or air filters
|
|
JoeM(GA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4521 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The suction of air pulls the oil up into the screen, water would not cling to the screen which is what traps the dirt, then the dirt and oil fall back into the cup and the sinks to the bottom. That’s how I understand it to work.
|
|
Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21462 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
dang, I'm supposed to clean my air filter ??? lol... 'somehow' I have a complete spare unit for my D-14s.. no air filters on snowblowers.....btw
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
|
john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9263 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I've seen on some tractors, mainly pullers, where they have installed a paper filter in a cone shaped holder, with a rubber tube going to the carb. Wouldn't that allow less air in? When I was a kid we never had the air cleaner hooked up on our WC. It was our primary tillage tractor. That thing ran like a tank. I started driving it when I was 10, and we had it a few years before that, and we were still using it when I left for the AF at 19. It was a narrow front tractor and we had to drive it across the creek to get to other fields. One location we had to drive up a steep bank at a diagonal. That tractor never tipped over going up that bank, but it sure made me nervous.
|
|
D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
|
|
Robert Musgrave
Silver Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: SE Wisconsin Points: 225 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
There are no Air Filters on snow blowers because there is no dust in the air during use! However, carburetors have additional shielding because of snow melting and turning to ice/water. Also notice how sheet metal goes around the muffler to help "pre-heat" air for intake/carb. protection. R. Musgrave
|
|
Brian G. NY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2198 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think the oil bath system is very good at filtering when maintained as recommended. However, probably due to it being a PITA, they were rarely well maintained.
Apparently, at one time, Ford felt oil bath was superior to paper filters. Way up into the 70s they offered an oil bath option for their heavy trucks that were used under heavy dust conditions.
|
|
ACinSC
Orange Level Joined: 16 Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Points: 2532 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Thanks Brian , I was wondering when the auto industry went to paper air filters . Pretty sure the 1949 Caddy I used to drive was oil bath . Interesting post .
|
|
DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5637 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Dust IS significantly lower when conditions are most likely snow, but the biggest reason, is that a snowblower, in operation, melts significant snow, and incoming air of the process is always extremely humid. Apply a paper filter to a working snowblower, and you'll have a frozen filter in very short order. The filter's job is to prevent abrasives from causing rapid internal engine wear... and any engine operating within 3000ft of the ground will be swallowing dust. If you're wondering how abrasive soil is, look at the moldboard after you've pulled two rows... or fire up your chain saw, take a test cut in a tree limb, then stuff the nose of the bar into the dirt at full throttle, and try again... it'll be dulled instantly. The oil-bath air cleaner is substantially more effective, at a lower restriction, than a paper filter of the SAME FILTRATION capacity. Although it was much higher maintenance than a paper filter, the oil used in the bath need not be 'new' oil... it was often reclaimed from the crankcase. The sump of An oil-bath filter will naturally allow atmospheric moisture (condensation) from both outside, and inside the engine to fall to the bottom, just like the sediment bowl under the fuel tank. As long as that sump doesn't fill completely, the oil-bath filter will be just fine... but if it fills, and the ambient temp falls below freezing, the engine won't start. The reason why the oil-bath filter went away in automotive, and the paper filter took over, was because the automotive application didn't work as hard as the agricultural, didn't work in as dusty an environment, and didn't need to last as long. Neither my '24 Model T, nor my '29 Ford A pickup have ANY air filter... but one COULD purchase one for the A as an accessory.... but disposable paper filters weren't particularly known then. Instead, the filter consisted of a wire basket, around which one would wrap oil-dampened cotton cloth. It was necessary to make regular mixture adjustments to compensate for the restriction, but on a Model A, one simply reached over to the passenger side and turned the choke knob a little. Neither the Model T, nor Model A Ford had air (or oil) filters, as the leader's 'edict' stated neither 'needed' air filters. It was considered acceptable by the designers for these engines to get 'minor overhauls' averaged every 4 to 6,000 miles... about 250 hours. As time went on, longer intervals became expected. Military engines fitted with filtration proved the concept to millions of GIs. Metallurgy improved, and protective plating processes appeared. Adding filters was a simpl, quick and easy way to extend the MTBOH... and the manufacturer took advantage of the circumstance by up-selling dealer service to include filters into the oil change package. To improve the margin even more, they invented specially-fitted filters so that a 'standard industrial' filter system couldn't be used... and then contracted major manufacturers with 'sole source/exclusive sourcing' contract to make the special filters available only through dealers, so that aftermarket supply wouldn't exist. Which sounds suspicously familiar... and I hear the song "everything old is new again' playing in the background... |
|
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It was considered acceptable by the designers for these engines to get 'minor overhauls' averaged every 4 to 6,000 miles... about 250 hours.
YEP... the dont BUILD THEM LIKE THEY USE TO !!!......... GREAT !!
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
OUCH !! what was the "protection" for them ??
|
|
caledonian
Silver Level Access Joined: 02 Apr 2016 Location: Nebraska Points: 469 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Our 1967 Ford pickup with a 352 cu in V8 used a oil bath air cleaner. In our D17 and WD's they were a good way to use up used oil.
|
|
FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If memory serves, dad ran a '65 flare-side 4 speed stick that hauled 1000's of hogs/1000's of bushels of ear corn to the local elevator that RAISED the front end of the truck to dump into the "pit" !! Thanks for that memory !!
|
|
Boss Man
Orange Level Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Location: Greenleaf, WI Points: 608 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Early Fordsons used water bowl air cleaners. Problem is people forgot to drain them and the bowls cracked in the winter. Oil was an improvement unless the cup filled with water sitting outside. Didn't bust the cup but did cause it to rust out with time.
|
|
1963D17
Bronze Level Joined: 05 Jun 2021 Location: Alvord, Iowa Points: 81 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
My 1956 Pontiac is oil bath. I think air flow to the size of the oil bowl was the limiting factor. For example when a M & W turbo was installed on a Farmall 560 a dry air filter was recommended. Likely why the D19 was always a dry filter.
|
|
bgengler30
Bronze Level Joined: 10 Aug 2021 Location: Billings MO Points: 1 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Where does one find a new air filter for D17 series 2. I found some online but not sure if they would work. Most filters say it would work on SN 4000 and up. My tractor SN is 3052
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19504 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
At D-17 serial number 42,001 and up they used a horizontally mounted "dry-type" air cleaner/filter. This was used on series 3 and 4 models. Your tractor should have a vertically mounted oil-bath design. You want the whole oil-bath air cleaner assembly ??
|
|
Post Reply | |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |