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School me on an old WD, please

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matador View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Location: Wyoming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: School me on an old WD, please
    Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 6:15pm
Because I'm a glutton for punishment, two old tractors to deal with hasn't taught me anything I guess. There's an Allis WD coming up for auction that's caught my eye. My father and I run a straw baling business- we put up our fields and some of the neighbor's into small squares. Last year we did 6,000 bales, and this year we're shooting for 12,000. We have an Allis 7040, Oliver 1800A, and a Case 830 that'll do most of the work. The neighbor uses 30 foot headers, so we often have to split the windrows in half to be able to bale them. We use a New Holland 57 PTO 3 point rake for that. We've run that rake with the neighbor's 35HP Kubota, which handles it nicely. We really don't want to have to keep asking to borrow a tractor, so I've been trying to find something to use. I found this WD coming up on BigIron: https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/Allis-ChalmersWD2WDTractor-15

If I'm reading the serial numbers correctly, it's a 1949 WD with a narrow front, PTO and a 3 point. I don't really know much of anything about these tractors, so I could use a little help on knowing if I should bid on it or not, and if so what you think is a good amount. I've been a little hesitant to look at something like an 8N since I think the front axle will want to push the windrow, being as low as it is. I've never been around a narrow front tractor. From what I've read, they're safe as long as you're not a moron. Our fields are entirely flat out here, and there aren't any hills within a few miles of us. I think you'd almost have to be trying to tip one out here to do it.

So, for pulling our rake, and maybe doing a little yard work with a bush hog or putting in rows at the ends of fields with a toolbar, what do you guys think? Is this a good idea or should I run like heck?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 6:38pm
it's hard to say. If it's a WD, the newest it could be is a 1953. You have to remember that it is at least a 68 year old tractor.

The 3 point hitch has to be an aftermarket conversion kit. WD's were pin hitch or snap coupler.

With that said, I have a WD that would rake all day with absolutely no problem. Parts are still plentiful. They were a great tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 9:12pm
Going off the serial number, it looks to be a 1949. It’s about 10-15 years older than what we have, but does that make this one too old to have the features we’d need? I can’t imagine you’d need anything fancy to rake- even the Power Director wouldn’t be much of a learning curve. If I clutch and stop the rake, it wouldn’t hurt anything.

What’s it like driving one of these older tractors? Do you miss the power steering a lot or do they drive just like you’d expect a tractor to?

The 3 point is definitely an add on. It looks like it was well done though, outside of one carriage bolt that’s two sizes too small they used for some reason

I know buying any old tractor is a dice roll. I’m just worried about buying something that might not be the right tractor for the job
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 9:36pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe(TX) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 10:29pm
It would do the job nicely. We used a WD45 to rake with no problems. We used 8N and NA Fords also before with no problems with a PTO rake although the 8N hydraulics stop with the clutch pushed in. Later Fords had live hydraulics. My uncle said the *N's were good tractors to gather the eggs as long as you didn't have too many eggs. He was a custom farmer and said he did at least two inframe overhauls a year. He went to WD"s and later to 190 and 7010 Allis Chalmers. I now own his 7010.
I like a pull type ground drive rake because they are easier to bale behind.
The wide front will give a smoother ride make it rake easier. The narrow front will mash the hay down in soft ground.
1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 11:36pm
The way we rake the larger windrows is a little different- we run half the row into the New Holland 57, so we get two windrows that our balers can handle. Last year, the barley crops here weren't very good at all, so the rows were thin enough that we just used the Deere 670 rake to flip them (The type of taking you prefer). The problem with using the 670 on the large rows to split is that the ground drive tire always seems to plug with the volume. That's why I think your uncle and I are thinking the same exact thing- that a Ford 8N would just push the windrow on the front axle. I'm thinking something like a WD or WD45 wouldn't be too much wider to really cause a problem with a rake, but it would be taller, so it should clear the windrow. That's just my guess though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 6:00am
The thing that jumped out at me, from the picture, is the seat. It looks to have a fixed seat (no suspension). That would make for a pretty hard ride, but an original seat with the mounting bracket and shock should be very easy to find.

if I was looking for a rake tractor like you are describing, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a WD, depending on how it runs. Make sure to check the rear rims and tires closely before you buy. New rims and/or tires can drastically change the final price.

These tractors usually don't steer hard, but it sounds (to me) that maybe you have never driven an older tractor, especially one with a narrow front end. One bit of advice. When you are driving, don't put your thumbs inside the steering wheel. A rock or hard rut can yank the steering wheel and you will have very sore thumbs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 6:18am
I will throw in two pennys too.
 Price for the tractor in the picture in my are would be no more than $1500. without the 3 point maybe no more than $1200 unless it is really nice and then all bets are off.
 They are not the most pleasant to get on and off depending on your size and agility. This may sound weired but getting your legs in the correct position is not nearly as easy as a egg gathering 8N. But the WD for you task is a good tractor. If I had my choice a wide front would be just a little better just due to the fact I think they steere just a little easier and they dont fight you at the whee as much. That is from 60 yeas of driving these.
Either type wide or narrow has great ground clearance for traveling over straw. 
Side note the POT on these is exposed. I have seen where they can get clogged with material and stop the tractor. On a narrow front your compacting the material directly under the PTO area. On a wide front it can happen more often. Just depends on conditions.
Yes these have been around a long time. That seat although padded might be stiff as mentioned. 
Check the hand clutch it should be stiff and snap in both directions. check foot clutch pedal for side movement same with brake pedals. excessive slop in these areas could mean high hours and lots of field work. 
Let us know!
 Good luck!
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 8:35am
Looks like they need money to finish the siding on the lower level of their house? :)

It looks like the top of the coolant house under the water pump may be wet. It's quite possible the seal is leaking on the pump (causes the coolant to run down to that area) so you might plan on a new water pump... Or at least be prepared to look into it. That was the case with my WD. I thought it was just a hose leaking.

I'm not a fan of the 3-point top link attachment location. Not the strongest spot.

Probably plan on new front tires? That's a couple hundred bucks.

I'd say it's a $1000 tractor in my neck of the woods if it runs well and doesn't smoke a ton.

EDIT: Missed the video. Carb may need cleaned out? Sure didn't want to take off at first. I'd say $1000 tops.


Edited by wjohn - 13 Jun 2021 at 8:39am
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 9:05am
Depending on the capacity of the small sq baler, and if you use a flat rack, or thrower wagons, of drop the bales on the ground, a WD can operate a baler.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 10:20am
That skinny fan belt is riding in the bottom of the fan pulley and looks the same on alt pulley? would not charge well if slipping. Have to remove lower rad hose to put the fat WD belt on....but be sure it has the wide pulley on alt. Can't tell for sure in pics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 11:24am
Sugarmaker is right- the oldest tractor I've driven is a 1962. I know that in the 10 years from when they last made these to 1962, a LOT changed on tractors. This could be the first tractor I ever touch that I'd call a "Vintage" one. I know a lot of people would argue that a Case 830 and Oliver 1800A are vintage, but to me, it's a modern-type tractor, just a bit more crude that what came later.

The seat doesn't bother me too much- I honestly figured whatever tractor I buy will end up getting a modern seat sometime anyways, as soon as my butt complains at me enough. What does worry me is how it ran in the videos. I don't know if that's a choke thing, the carburetor being messed up, or just a bad operator. I have no experience with these tractors, but I know when you release the clutch, it's not supposed to almost die.

I'm not a fan of the upper three point link location either, but I didn't think of the structural problems. Looking at it, I just wonder if my top link will hit on it when I lower the rake. I guess a cutting torch and 10 minutes could fix that, but still

How bad is it to change a water pump on these? A simple, cheap fix, or is it a "Tear down half the tractor and spend more than the tractor cost" fix?

Both of our small square balers are New Holland 276's, so it's probably a big, but doable job for this tractor. We bale flat fields and drop the bales on the ground. Honestly though, we have the Case, Oliver, and the Allis 7040 that can bale, so if we ever hook up whatever the little rake tractor is to a baler, it's probably on the last day for s and giggles more than anything


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 1:06pm
If that was a cold start,it's not unusual for one to die out when loaded first thing. I have more throttle applied and a finger in the choke rod......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 1:07pm
Good Luck! I have brought home way worse. But with the changes and things mentioned she may be a winter project for you to get back to good working order. Translate that into $2000 additional stuff you could do to get it ready for days in the field raking which it will do but maybe not day one. 
Dang I hope that helps you a little??
The Case 830 is a much more comfortable tractor to drive and handle for hours. This smaller WD will beat you up a lot more even on good ground. I have logged hundreds of field hours on these. Always enjoyed them but There are more comfortable tractors. But we love thes old orange girls. 
If you buy it keep your expectations low and go from there. Good news is you have back up tractors that can step in and do the work. I think our baler was a 268? Late 60's a,d a WD is a good tractor for those with the hand clutch. Maybe better than any of your other ones. The hand clutch is perfect for easing into large wads of straw!
 Regards,
 Chris
 Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 14 Jun 2021 at 5:54am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 1:31pm
If this one looks like it's a basket case, I have no problems to keep looking. We don't bale straw for another two months, so we have time. I know the neighbor would let us use the Kubota again, I just don't want to ask him. I hate to borrow stuff

Honestly I prefer driving the Oliver to the Case, but that 830 has really grown on me. A bit crude compared to the Oliver, but it starts right up and everything seems to work alright. For a $3000 tractor, I'm impressed with it. 

The problem in Wyoming is just finding a tractor. Freighting that tractor from Rawlins is about $700, and getting one from Eastern Nebraska is about $2000. So, if I look farther, it's hard to not blow the budget. The only other tractors I saw out here were a Ferguson TO35 diesel that smokes so much I'm amazed the guy driving didn't die of the fumes, and this International that has hydraulic pump problems: https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/International5842WDTractor-2

There just isn't much out here in the way of equipment, and this year with the hay shortages, everything is getting snagged up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveSB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 2:59pm
I think the WD would do what you need it to do, no problem.   But I’m prejudiced, I love the WD series.   That seat looks like it has a shock under it, so it may ride better than the original. If tractors are that hard to find in your area, I’d get it, and plan on going through the fuel system, the carbs are really easy to rebuild and other parts are plentiful.   If you bought it and hated it, you could resell it and probably get your money back. I’ve used a WD for years and love them, even though I will admit they are not the most comfortable tractor To drive, but you get used to it.
Good luck with your decision. In my area it would have an asking price of around $2000, but would be negotiable, I know prices vary greatly by location.    It if you could get it for $1500 or less, I think it would be a safe gamble. As long as you don’t mind doing a little work on it, these old tractors always need something, I would at least rebuild the carb and go from there, but it wasn’t smoking or knocking, the hydraulics worked and the 3 point didn’t look to bad.
Again. Good luck.
1948 C, 1953 CA, 1948 WD, 1961 D-17 Series 2 Diesel, 1939 WC, 1957 D14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 3:28pm
The WD is one of my favorites. I pulled a NH 268 with my Dad's 1948 WD for many years and raked with a Fordson Dexta. The hand clutch is great for pto work, especially baling hay.
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 3:47pm
I've heard from a lot of people that the hand clutch/power director is great for baling. Now, on these WD's and WD45's, I assume the hand clutch is the same thing as the later Power Directors like the D-Series and 100 series tractors had pretty much, right?

What worries me about trying to bale with one is that our entire windrow will be so large that I feel like I'd be slipping the thing literally all the time, only fully engaging when turning around. I assume even being a wet oil bath clutch, I'd be killing the tractor to do that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 7:13pm
A power director has a high and low range. WD only engages the hand clutch so there is no high and low range. They were made to slip, unless pulled back to fully engage. WD’ s are good bailing tractors. I don’t remember the ground speed in first gear but it should be in tractor data website to see if it matches up to what your used to running. It may in fact be too fast for big straw and you would be rowing the hand clutch like your in a boat lol.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 7:26pm
To be clear the WD does not have a Power Director. It is only an in-out transmission/rear end clutch that allows the PTO and hydraulics to continue to be powered. There is no hi-lo like you would have in a D-17, for example. You may already know this but I couldn't be 100% sure from your posts - don't want you to be counting on a hi-lo function that isn't there!

I got a WD that was uglier than that one but ran well, did not smoke, and was complete, delivered, for $700 here in KS over a year ago. I went in to fix a leaking rear main seal and discovered that the main bearings and some other engine components did not have too much time left in this world. I suppose that is the risk you take with anything used - but for $700 with good rims and usable tires, I'm not out anything and have a good solid core to rebuild. It's just taking me forever to get it back together.

If tractors are harder to come by in your area then it sounds like prices may be higher.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 8:41pm
Yeah, it's a lot faster in 1st than what we're used to. My Case 830 does 1.7 MPH at rated engine speed, and the PTO on a Case is at I think 1600 RPM. TractorData shows the WD doing 2.5 in first gear. I don't think I'd be rowing it like a boat, I think I'd be stuck slipping it constantly LOL

I don't expect this to ever run a baler though unless we're just goofing around and doing it for fun one day. We have the Oliver and Case to bale, and if one of those goes down, we have the 7040 that runs a baler nicely. The problem with splitting windrows with those tractors is that they're just too big and clumsy (The 7040 especially). I love that 7040 for tillage, but for raking and running the bale wagon, I really am not a fan of it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 12:23am
Think you should be looking for a good 170 diesel. They run cheap on fuel, has mechanical hand clutch and live hydraulics, wide front and will ride a lot better....  Or find a D15 or D17 IV with factory 3PT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 6:03am
Did you buy it! 
I like the post that if you hate it you can sell it. So true. Just dont put a ton into it. Might not recover your sunk costs.
I have raked hundreds of acres with one of these. It might be just what you need and the speed might be about right in second and or third ?? Sound like you have big tailings from a combine that your splitting. I have never done that. We would cut the straw again after combining and then rake. We need picture of the New WD working!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 8:54am
The auction date is a week from Wednesday, so nobody's bought it yet. Right now, the bid is cheap at like $100 or so, but you know what they say about auctions- you just never know.

Yeah, the neighbors combines make massive windrows. I'm not sure I could run my Deere 530 round baler through them without splitting. They're thick!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 9:08am
Must have some huge headers on those combines to produce that much straw. If your just going to rake with it, a WD will do a good job. A D15 series II is an even better choice, power steering and very nimble.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 10:11am
The neighbor runs a Deere S670 and two 9600's. The S670 and one 9600 get 30 foot headers, and the other 9600 gets a 25 foot. We're in NW Wyoming, so we flood irrigate here. The irrigation produces thick barley to start with, and the giant headers leave massive windrows

For the straw business, whatever tractor I pick up will just sit on the rake all season probably. I may want to throw a bush hog on it for summer or use it to put in end rows in fields every now and then, but almost all it's work will be raking. We're good on baling and bale wagon tractors. That just leaves the rake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 10:58am
D15 series II, much better tractor for a rake. We have both and while I like my WD, I would definitely prefer the D15 not only for comfort, not having ps on the WD will wear you out with the amount your doing. Just my 2 cents
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 3:13pm
The auction was today, and well, I own the WD. It sold for $725
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 4:13pm
I think you did very well a WD is a good tractor. simple easy to fix and parts are plentiful. I liked the narrow front for raking hay. Mine ran poorly when I bought it previous owner said it was hard on points. I put new points in and it ran great for a little while then started running poorly again. when I took the 12 volt coil off under the mounting band it said ballast required. I added a ballast when I did the points the second time new plugs wires cap and rotor. removed the fuel separator cleaned the tank and carb. all total I spent $100 haven't touched it since. for the last 5 years I go out to the shop starts and runs beautiful. with a three point rake it'll turn very easy. there not a lot of fun climbing on and off with a 3 pt implement on make sure you always lower it to the ground when your getting of you don't want to be climbing on it when you slip and hit the hyd down trying to catch your self. put some anti skid on the step it helps a lot.
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Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Location: Wyoming
Points: 1727
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 4:25pm
I see they make a step you can buy that mounts to the side rail on these so you can climb on from the side. How good are those? Convenient and handy to have, or not really usable?
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