185 hard start

Use the manifold heater instead, it's much kinder to the engine than ether.  Below 50 degrees they are not too eager to start. 

My son's 185 doesn't start so good either when it gets down to about 40 or colder. Has a block heater, so plugged in, it starts right up. Darrel

Start with TWO fresh batteries of 900 or more CCA's each and clean healthy battery cables of OEM size or larger, not some small diameter after-market stuff.  Then, if not satisfied, have the starter rebuilt or replaced with new. Lucas brand starters are famously known for poor/half-speed cranking. Delco starters usually better. Fast cranking speed is imperative to a diesel engine starting well.  Use of the intake manifold heater (if it has one) for up to 60 seconds makes starting much easier and may be all you need to do. Beyond these things, you are now delving into the area of spending lots of $$$$$$$ to try and fix something that YOU perceive as a problem.  You could have four of the 185's that are identical and there will always be one that starts better or worse than the other three. Diesel engines can kind of be like that.  You'll be very disappointed if you spend thousands of dollars rebuilding the injection pump and injectors to wind up with the SAME thing. Then, you'll spend thousands more in new pistons/sleeves and valves and valve seats and will it then be the way you think it should be ??? If it runs well and doesn't use oil, figure out where to draw the line looking for the needle in the haystack (there might not be one at all).

I agree with what DrAllis an Ed say.

90 degrees my 185 will fire right up 40 degrees not so good.Heat it up with the manifold heater a couple times it'll eventually start.Better just to plug it in if I can or give it a tiny shot of starting fluid  and it'll fire right up. Once started it runs fine no big deal to me.

Black smoke sounds like good pump and good compression , so sounds like cranking speed is slow.

Some years ago I had a 185 with the same symptoms. The tractor was very original and not  having a lot of hours, indicating the engine was original. I questioned a former AC dealer, his explanation was there was a series of engines off production that didn't have the proper compression ratio and the remedy was replacing the piston with the upper ring designed closer to the top of the piston. He stated any rebuilds were with a slightly higher compression.

Did allis switch from manifold heater to ether injector sometime during 185 production? My son's 185 is one of the later ones, and it has an ether injector, not manifold heater. Darrel

MACK wrote: Black smoke sounds like good pump and good compression , so sounds like cranking speed is slow. KY.allis, I agree the Lucas will spin one faster than Delco if it is good, but only one in ten is good.         MACK

180-185-190 and 190XT were all to have pistons that were 16 to 1 compression ratio. When the 200 came out, it had 15 to 1 pistons in it. The pistons were identical to look at EXCEPT above the top ring area, where the 15 to 1's were machined .015" smaller for a total of .030" smaller diameter. This lowered the compression one full point and kept the piston head from swelling up too much and scaring the cylinder liner (like some XT's did). This 15 to 1 piston was then kept thru the 7000-7010 and 7020 engines as well.  I've never heard of incorrect pistons ever being installed in a non-turbo 301, but I suppose it could have happened. Same rings. Same ring location. Same piston except for the upper diameter being machined a little smaller diameter.

During the time that I worked at the Harvey Engine plant in assembly and latter in QA I never heard of any engine being built with the wrong pistons. There was assembly problems now and then but, very few ever got out the door and the one's that did were corrected before the finished product left the final assembly plant.

Great discussion, as our 6060 has always been difficult to start below 50 degrees. Wish a ether bottle wasn’t an option ever, should have come standard with a block heater. 30 minutes and she fires right up. My XT, 60 seconds on the preheater and she tries to start right away. Another 30 seconds and she is up and running at 30 degrees outside. Amazing how different engines require different starting procedures. Our Case track loader starts at any temp with no assistance...why is that? Compression difference?

hello.

A few points, the allis tractor engines were all scheduled to receive gear reduction starters. I have one of the test units on my 185.  Dennis Gable worked for Marvin prible in Az test center and brought a load of stuff back in a uhaul. Cranking speed is paramount as it increases the heat of combustion.  Fuel atomization is also important- to little  or too much fuel not atomized cools the air charge and will not burn.  Air heaters - I actually run two - one as in the old 190 in the intake tube manifold and one in the bottom.  Remove a heater and ground it and activate it. It takes about 15 -20 seconds to turn it red - max temp. It will remain hot for 30 seconds. All this time it is heating the air. Cycling the plugs will result in air temp still being heated while not running down the batteries. On for about 20 seconds, wait 15 then recycle- on my engine - (which is over fueled with turbo and will not start below 50 )  even in the 20 's about 4 cycles and it starts and runs. (while I am freezing).  IT is so much easier on the engine to plug it in with a block heater. I kept mine on a timer when we fed with it daily. On all our tractors with ether - we restrict the ether flow even more than the nozzles do.   As to 6060-6080 there were 2 different compression pistons used with corresponding inj nozzle sizes as well.  Personally, we have been using the latest 200 -8010 pistons - tremendous difference in cranking.  On some 180 and 185's with the auto advance (the ones with the allen screw stick our the side of the bottom ) the pumps would advance at cranking speed due to fuel transfer pressure or incorrect factory setting or spring set.. anyway we found that installing a timing window or gauge tool and cranking the engine over saw the cam ring turn, thus advancing timing - a real killer to starting. Adjusting the trimmer screw allowed the advance to wait til the engine was just off idle speed.   As stated before, the last 185's with bosch injectors started in the teens when new... cranking speed, compression, timing and fuel break up - it had it all.