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ransesbutton 
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Joined: 02 Aug 2022
Location: USA
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 Topic: Heated Shop Cement Floor
Posted: 02 Aug 2022 at 12:09pm |
If you need an underfloor heating system, you must first take care of a quality grout finish on the floor and foundation. What kind of foundation are you planning to build for your future store? Do you want to do it yourself and without the help of professionals? Maybe one of your friends has had experience with a concrete finish, concrete floor, or concrete walkway? When we were building a boutique from scratch, we turned to almightyconstructionnw.com. The experts from this company suggested we do a concrete foundation and then granite tile. Granite slabs look expensive and spectacular. I was pleased with the way our boutique looks. What kind of business do you want to do in this store?
Edited by ransesbutton - 08 Aug 2022 at 11:48am
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 31 Jul 2022 at 12:16am |
This thread was dead as of 2020.
It was brought back up by virtue of spam posting on 7/29.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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shameless dude
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Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 3:23pm |
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I just checked with our local concrete place (east central NE) and the price is $150. a yard, what is the price in ya'lls area?
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 1:24pm |
If your working on your feet all day on raidiant floor heat they don't get as tired or sore from standing all day
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 9:19am |
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Do you best to do it right the first time. A cringe at the cost can be a smile years later knowing the expense was worth it.
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Kurzy
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Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 7:35am |
Howdy, All you fellows are great info. I got a much better idea now. So going to the MATE show in Billings this February. It is Montana Ag Trade Expo show. All contractors, building and much more to do with Farm/ranch services. Been told by others that went make sure you go last day of show, thats the day for deals! So will be looking for new ways of doing things too. Might come back with cement slab and building!!
Thanks Kurzy
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:53pm |
re:... I would like to have something about 1/4 that size.
gee, I'm thinkin it about 1/2 what I need considering what the 'contractor' dropped off last month...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:50pm |
Sherman Farms, Thanks for the costs! I would like to have something about 1/4 that size. Heated floor would be on my list too. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sherman Farms
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Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:47pm |
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Just poured a 60x136 foot floor with 2 inch insulation and tubing. Cost for 150yds of concrete, insulation,tubing,labor was just short of $40,000. This building is connected to our shop, which has the same heating system,it works great and keeps you comfortable all day long. The upfront costs a little more,but in long run its worth it.The new building will house our AC collection and some our newer Agco equipment.
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B, C, RC, 3 wc,2 wd,3 wd45, d15, d17, d19, d21, 190, 440, 7040, 918 backhoe, 12 roto balers, 7 60 combines, 40, 66,2 72,90 super, sp100, Gleaner E, F3, 3 L2, R62, and much more
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Ted J
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Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:06am |
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I agree with Dave to a point, I poured a LOT of mud in my lifetime and I do like he says, pour the two outer pieces first and then finish with the center. I'd drill holes in the 2x8s (frames) and put re-rod sticking IN the side pours at least 4' and out so the center piece 'connects' to the side pours. Again, at least 4'. This way your rod is IN the concrete and you don't have to drill.
I wouldn't cut the sections either, IF they crack, that's not gonna help and it's an unnecessary step.
Around here, the operator from the concrete company is the chute man, so you can take him out of the equation. You can get by with one raker and have the other guy with a shovel. You'll need one guy on a bull float almost as you go along. He's gonna be the most important as he's GOTTA KNOW what he's doing!!
If it's not being poured in HOT weather, you need to have a finisher starting when you're half poured. Otherwise it'll get away from him, but now a days they are using a machine and it's easier, faster and you can wait longer. I don't think they do as good a job as a man finishing though. They don't get the rock down and a guy can.
I didn't see where anyone mentioned what bag mix to use? If you're going to go 6" deep ( I would ), then you should use 6 bag mix. Most guys will tell you 5 is good enough, but for the little bit extra, the 6 will give you a better surface and will outlive you!
And DO NOT let anyone talk you into any expansion joint material. Pour concrete to concrete. That stuff will eventually rot away and make good places for stuff to fall into and weeds to grow and for water to get into and expand causing problems. The idea behind it is OK, but is worthless. ALL 3 pieces are going to rise and fall at the same time so you won't need it.
Enough ranting, I'll follow along and try to help if you have any other questions, but concrete was my specialty!
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19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 05 Jan 2020 at 11:37pm |
If it's a workshop, I wouldn't go thinner than 6"... I calculated 18 yd... 6" thick... 28*36=1008. Divide that in half for a 6" slab, and you got 504 cubic feet... divide by 27 and it's 18ish yards.
For that size, I'd pour in three segments... I'd pour left and right sides 12 wide x 28 long, and finish those, then come back to pour the center section at 12x28... saw cut them down 14ft down the center...
A 12yd load is pushing road and soil limits for many situations... and the square footage will require lots. For a 12x36 pour, I'd recommend five sets of hands... two on screed, two on rakes, and one on the chute, and following behind, at least two finishers. If you pour the first two slabs about two-and-a-half, mebbie three hours apart, your finishers will be on the first slab, then floating the second about the time the first one is in a wait... and after that, they'll be back-and-forth between the two, checking on the first, while following the second. I'd strip the forms two days later, let them shrink for about two weeks, then drill for rebar ties, lay reinforcement, and pour the last strip. Using the cured slabs for your screed surface, you'll get a nice, even result.
You're looking at 6yds per segment, so multiply that by your local rate. Where I'm at, that can be anywhere from 80 to 130/yd for a 3500psi (@ 5 slump) mix delivered to my property.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 9:26am |
That's at least 12 cubic yards of concrete ( FULL, BIG truck) !!! That's a LOT of concrete to deal with AND you'll want it level,smooth and done right the FIRST time. It's one job best left to the pros..... If you're in good health, you can shave coins off other areas of a build to make up for the cost.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Kurzy
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Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 7:39am |
Howdy, One more question. Cost. 28 x 36 floor. Just ball park figure. Doing yourself or contractor doing it?
Thanks Kurzy
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 10:01pm |
The key element to hydronic comfort, is the fact that you have heat at floor level, going UP. Heating concrete means you have a very large solid mass at a comfortable temperature.
Very few of you will remember, but our ancestors had a neat trick for staying warm in bed at night... build a fire in the fireplace early, get it roaring, and stack some soapstone bricks around the front of the fire. The fireplace, chimney, and mantle are all stone, and they're warming up, as are the bricks in front. When it was time for bed, a brick or two was put in a metal container on a stick, and slid under the bed... and it warmed the bed pretty well.
Now, think about walking into an unheated shop... on a 15F day. Close the door, and fire up a heater or shop furnace... let it burn for an hour, and let's say the room temp makes it all the way to 70F. The heated air will all flow straight up to the ceiling, and as the furnace runs, will eventually get it so that down near the floor, it'll be at the proper temperature.
The floor, however, will still be VERY cold, as will be the soles of your boots, and your feet... very soon, your ankles, then your shins, then knees will be cold, and at that point, you'll start having back pains, your hips won't move, and your arms and hands will be unuseable, even though you might be sweating out the top of your head.
Warming the floor does NOT change the fact that heat rises, but it DOES mean that you're not standing on an ice-cold floor with a gas furnace set at 70F.
You can run a forced-air heater of ANY type, and the concrete will not warm up substantially... by simple thermal stratification, the floor will ALWAYS be coldest part of the shop, even IF you insulate beneath the slab. Radiant heaters shining down from the ceiling WILL heat the floor eventually... but not evenly. Changing out the air in the shop (by opening the doors) WILL be recovered fairly quickly by a radiant tube ceiling heat system, but only the first solid object that it sees. The concrete directly beneath a truck will not warm up until LONG AFTER the truck has warmed up, too.
The concrete floor is an incredible mass, which means it takes lots of energy to CHANGE it's temperature. The amount of 'thermal mass' in an object determines how much energy it will hold, and of course, it will not gain or lose that energy very quickly... so once you get the floor up to temperature, it will tend to STAY at that temperature, even with air changeover events...
And you're still standing on a nice, warm floor. Your tools will stay warm, you won't have condensation forming on everything... you won't have sweating, rusting machine tools, tractor parts, engine blocks... they'll be warm and dry.
I always recommend to EVERYBODY... even if it's just a pole barn... to put down styrofoam, then a couple inches of compactible fill, with PEX in the fill, then put in the wire or rebar on chairs, and pour the slab. The perimeter can ALWAYS be finished around the last half-a-foot with a small mixer and trowel later, but get insulation and tubing under that slab, and later on, when you want to put heat in the floor, it goes in easy and fast, and works really well.
It does NOT matter what your 'primary source' of heat is. A wood-burner, a coal furnace, waste oil, propane, fuel oil... even coolant from a generator engine (it's just throwing away heat anyway) will warm that floor.
IF you feel need to manage the temperature of the floor with automation, the process is really easy- when you pour the slab, take an extra 10' scrap of PEX, plug the far end, and place it into the slab about 9 feet. Once the concrete has cured, you can slip a temperature sensing probe up that PEX, into the slab, and use that as feedback to control your heat distribution system. Works a whole lot better than a wall thermostat when excessive zone temperature is a problem.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 5:57pm |
 DougG wrote:
Whats the brand Dusty ? What does it use for energy ? |
The first one I got for taking it down, it was somewhat in the way. I didn't know what I was going to do with it when I took it down. A couple years latter I built out first shop-garage and I installed it there, and was very happy with it. In 2012 we moved and built a new shop there. I wanted the same type of heater in that new shop. I shopped around a little and bought one from W.W. Grainger. If I remember right it was built in Michigan. I use LPG for it, I'm sure you can use natural gas in it, and maybe fuel oil.
Dusty
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NEVER green
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 5:38pm |
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One more thing with forced air, way more dust, hate dust on my clean parts!
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 3:53pm |
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you need to remember ... 'heat goes to cold' for 99% of all thermal problems EXCEPT how icy cold female toes find YOUR warm body.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 2:12pm |
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the styrofoam under the cement keep you from lossing heat and cement puts off a lots of heat for faster recovery when you open the door. I aways fire up my boiler around October 1st so I don't have to start with a cold slab of concrete.
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cabinhollow
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 8:30am |
Kurzy wrote:
Howdy, After reading again and again all posts I come up with 1 question. By putting the pex tubing under the slab or down so deep in the cement don't you loose or slow heating?
Thanks Kurzy |
The slab is used as a heat sink. Very slow warm up, very slow cool down.
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Kurzy
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 7:36am |
Howdy, After reading again and again all posts I come up with 1 question. By putting the pex tubing under the slab or down so deep in the cement don't you loose or slow heating?
Thanks Kurzy
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Kurzy
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Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 7:11am |
Howdy All, O Boy lots of great ideas! What different ways to go. That's what i wanted to hear. Hopefully by spring will have some plan.
Thanks Kurzy
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TimNearFortWorth
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Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 9:12am |
We ran radiant on NatGas in WY, large wellhead shop full of forgings with pallet racks 3 & 4 high. When boys pulled in at 4-5:00 AM with Power Strokes via the overhead doors originally set up to drive tractor trailers through, recovery time was truly impressive as all that iron on the shelf held that heat. Pulling equipment down off racks it was always warm to the touch. 20-30 minutes later, could hear the burners going off as shop was back to 50+, this when we were well below zero in January. Floor was tolerable for working and we rarely had a jacket on during the day. Was not cheap to install but payback was worth it vs. the efficiency of forced air used previously.
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DougG
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Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 7:42am |
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Whats the brand Dusty ? What does it use for energy ?
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 7:41am |
I like to use radiant heat. The one that is a 4" tube that hangs 10 or 12 ft. above the floor and runs the length of my shop. I don't use my shop every day, so I turn the heat down when I'm not using it.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 11:09pm |
Another thing one can do... if the floor isn't subjected to extreme focused pressure...
We have a building off the corner of the garage that was originally an ice house, and it was originally located down the hill, not far from the milkhouse. It was moved closer to the house and used as a pony stable oh... probably 4 decades prior to us buying this farm.
She wanted it to be turned into a garden shed... and half of it, as a hen-house for our layers.
I tilled up the dirt floor, leveled it, and compacted it with plate compactor. Then I put 2" foam down, then 2" of lime, with one PEX circuit in it... then a little more lime, then we brought in barrow-loads of used paver brickes. My kids placed the bricks close, then I brought in bags of premix mortar, dry, and dumped it out on the brick, then swept it around with a broom, 'till it was full to the bricks. Then I got the garden hose and misted it down really good, and walked away for a few days. That resulted in a nice, solid brick floor.
on the wall, is a 500w engine heater, with a 2gpm electric pump, and about two-quarts' worth of 4" PVC as a reservoir/expansion tank. The whole thing runs off a relay and an ordinary thermostat set to 40F. With insulation in the walls, and vaulted ceiling (only 12ft to the peak) and south-facing windows, the shed/henhouse would stay ABOVE 20F on a -20 night. We never had problems with our birds freezing... and with the water trough being a constant-feed/overflow with heat-tape in the drain, they always had fresh water 24/7.
Time to clean it out and prepare it for a new flock, though. Last four birds finally aged out a year ago this time... been too busy to start over.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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bradley6874
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Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 2:11pm |
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Doug it would work as a back up but not a helper the 150 boiler temperature won’t let the water. Heater come on now if the fire goes out the water will cool of and the water heater will come on and help keep from freezing Ps we are building house now it gets radiant through out but also getting a hot water coil in with the ac system radiant is slow and steady but if ya need to warm up the house quick turn the stat up on the ac and get it warm quick
Edited by bradley6874 - 16 Dec 2019 at 2:16pm
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 1:58pm |
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WhenI put up my garage & shop, building size is 28' X 56' with 9' ceiling I used a 50 gallon electric hot water heater to heat it and it worked great, when I added the house I put raidiant floor heat in the basement and we love it set at 68 degrees it keeps the main floor warm and the furance for the main floor doesn't run till it get below freezing outside. We love it, working in the shop your feet don't get as tired on a heated floor.
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DougG
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Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 12:06pm |
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Since this is the subject, I have tubes in my shop floor but it was installed 30 years ago- just a countinous piping 3 ft apart -30-50ft shop, 1 hook up in and 1 out - I have a Hardy wood furnace to heat it and the house but darn it eats the wood , finally unhooked the shop- so my question and thoughts are now is this- was thinking of hooking up a 40 gallon electric hot water heater in the system as a helper to heat the water, the pump on the wood furnace would be the pump as it is hooked to the thermostat already , would run the water into the water heater from the wood furnace then it goes to the floor and return to the wood furnace , the furnace temp is set at 150, the water heater would be set at the lowest setting- will need check valves on in and out to the water heater - why wouldn't this work ? Just looking for opinions and advise , thanks
Edited by DougG - 16 Dec 2019 at 12:33pm
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DanWi
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Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 10:47pm |
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When we did ours we attached the tubing to the wire mesh and then we poured concrete over the top. I dont remember what it was but it seemed like when we did it there was some kind of recommendation for how long each run should be.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 7:18pm |
DonBC wrote:
i forgot to add that you want the loops under air pressure during the concrete pour in the event that a loop gets damaged during the pour. A lot easier to find and fix than later after the concrete has set. |
X2
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