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Tractor recommendation needed |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19549 |
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Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 8:43am |
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Just to clarify something about the D-17 model. The only series available with a "factory" 3-point hitch (and a really good one) was the series 4 model. Any older models had add-on hitches and they were never as rugged as the series 4. The series 4 was a category #2 and was rated for 100 HP in pull/lift specs. D-15's had an optional factory 3-point but it was a category #1 and a much lesser hitch strength wise.
Edited by DrAllis - 19 Nov 2019 at 8:44am |
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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Dave, Lonn and Sugar, thank you for the information. I know a WD will not be enough, but they look really good when they are restored. Trying to find anything D series near me is hard enough, especially a D17. I found a D19 with a loader for $4K that's about a 6 hour drive, one way. I will continue to look, I'm not in a real big hurry, so I have time to find the right tractor.
Thanks, Shane |
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8168 |
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Sinbad, The WD series may not be what you need to carry your pellets? Do the pellets come on the back of a truck 3 feet off the ground and you need a highlift with forks to unload? Or are they on the ground and a 3 point carry all might work? The WD series would do a good job running a 5 foot brush hog or finish type mower. But the D series is easier to get of and on around a rear implement. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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Series III D17 also offered a factory 3-point.... just not as robust as the series IV. The D10 and D12 did too as did the D15. I want to say Allis offered a 3-point by 1961 on some tractors but I know for sure by 1963 they offered one. If Dave is right about the weight lift capacity then the D17 would be a great choice even with Snap Coupler. It's just a great all around useful tractor and you can always add that front pump................ using a little cash, but I'd spring for a series IV first.
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5639 |
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Sinbad, for what you're looking for, a D17 Series 4 with a Model 500 loader would be about perfect. I have a D17 Series 1, and the most substantial difference between the Series 4 and 1,2,3, is the hydraulics: Series 4 uses the modern standard low-pressure/high volume (2000psi or so, and I think 10gpm). It has several circuits, double-acting, open-center design. Prior models used high pressure (3500ish) and much lower volume... only a few GPM. My Series 1 has only one circuit, and it's a single-acting circuit (pressure up, gravity down). The hydraulic pump of series 1-thru-3s was 'downstream' of the foot clutch... so if you wanted to operate the lift, you HAD to have the clutch released. The Power Director grants the ability to disengage propulsion and leave the PTO and hydraulic pump turning, but the Series 4 was set up so that if the engine was running, you ALWAYS had hydraulics. Guys mention 'front pump', that's a pump that's driven directly off the engine's front pulley, which means you always have hydraulic actuation capacity,whenever the engine is running. This all being said, I can easily move a one-ton IBC tote full of firewood with my D17... I have a homemade 3-point hitch, and a homemade fork mount system that uses ordinary forklift forks. I can back up to a pallet, flip the lever, and lift it up just fine. On really heavy stuff, or on loads that're far, far back on the forks, yeah, the steering gets light, so I hafta ballast the nose of the tractor, but not much, and not often. FWIW, the Series 4 was first model to offer a factory 3-point, as the Ferguson patent expired shortly before it's release. The series 4 will be higher up the price range, first and foremost because, being modern of 'live' hydraulics. The D17's footprint and height is compact, and with 50+ horsepower, and a durable drivetrain, it's a great all-around chore tractor. It has much better ergonomics than the WD/WD45, and it's an 'open station' tractor (no cab or ROPS) with good all-around visibility from the operator's position. You can drive under a 7' garage door without barely ducking your head. Easy to work on, simple, durable, and reliable. The 100-series are great machines, but if you're carrying stuff into a garage, the size and clearance will be a major concern.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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Thanks Alex,
I'm looking at a D series as I have found a few that are in my range. As far as lifting 2k lbs, I can drop that weight by removing some of the bags of pellets. As long as I don't have to move the entire ton, one bag at a time, my back will be a lot happier. If I can get it down to 1000 lbs - 1500 lbs, I'll be happy. My main concerns are snow removal and field mowing. I like the WDs, and there are many to choose from, but I think that they are a little less up to the tasks that I want to do. |
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Alex09(WI)
Orange Level Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Location: CECIL WI Points: 1698 |
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Welcome to the forum!! I would recommend a D17, 170, 175 or 180. If you find a D17, install the front hydraulic pump and get an all hydraulic loader with pallet forks. A 170, 175 or 180 would already have the capacity for an all hyd loader to lift at least a ton of weight. My 170 gas never was without a loader during its life and I have lifted a whole allis C tractor with it and almost a whole WD tractor off the ground. The d17, 170 and 185 are built strong enough for that kind of loader work. The 180 is slightly better with a beefier front end, also better because you sit up higher, but is less manuverable for mowing around obstickals. The d17 is built heavy enough to lift 2000 lbs, but if you go over a plowed field with your 2000lb load on the forks, it might end up on the ground. Torque tub is plenty strong, no worries there. You should be able to assemble a D17 with hyd loader & ft pump for less than $6000 in my area. 170/175 would be about $7000 with loader. The 170-175-180 all have heavy factory 3-point hitches so a mower will go right on. https://madison.craigslist.org/grd/d/la-valle-allis-chalmers-170/7017865326.html |
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A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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I would like to find something in the $3k - $4k range with a loader. The tractor won't be used much. Mow the yard twice a year, depending on how much moisture we get, move snow, not sure how often that will happen, at least once a month, I guess. Moving pellets would be twice, maybe 3 times a year, if it's really cold. It's difficult to find a good deal around here, everything is more expensive. I'm looking for a good tractor for a good price. I don't have an issue pying to have one shipped in, I've had other vehicles shipped in and out. I just want a good, orange tractor, they look so good when they are done.
Have many neighbors that have newer $15k+ tractors but I can't see spending that kind of money on one I won't use on a weekly basis, at a minimum. |
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4402 |
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In this area, a D-14 would have to be completely restored to bring $3000. Most are lucky to bring half that price.
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Reindeer
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Calgary, AB Points: 650 |
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We had a 170 with a loader that would move around 1 ton bags of landscaping dirt. and mulch just fine. Have a D15 now and can move half a ton on the 3 point carry all just fine. Would not put much more on 3 point and be able to keep the front on the ground. 3 point hitch is a Cross after market mounted to the Snap Coupler.
Either tractor would do you well, but hydraulic systems just get better on the newer machines. I also have a recent 35 hp. Kubota, which does most of the work around our 8 acres. Cab is very nice in winter. Kind of getting spoiled to tell the truth. Dave |
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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Boy, for us when Dad bought his 190XT in 1977, that was a huge step up from a D17. Though we used that D17 right up to when he sold the cows in 1997..... and it got used less often for the next 15 years after along with the XT but being a gas the XT was finally parked because of lack of use. It is on the restoration list.
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Herb(GA)
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: United States Points: 1007 |
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Adding forks to your loader bucket; this extends the load and increases the load on your hydraulics. The $15,000 garden tractor with loader appear to be designed for a less severe useage. Diesels are great but normally more expensive. Herb(GA)
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victoryallis
Orange Level Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Location: Ludington mi Points: 2857 |
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My 175 just doesn’t impress me. Low to the ground clumsy tractor with uncomfortable seat. With the power director in low I’m doing the splits. |
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Victory, would you be willing to elaborate on your "100" series comment?? We have moved up from a WD and D-17 to a D-15 and a D-19(NOT ALLIS CHALMERS best tractor IMO) to now a gasser 180 and a XT 190 turbo diesel.I have dreams of owning a diesel 175 but won't happen . Curious about your statement??
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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That makes sense about the tires and the skid. Tractor seat time is always a plus.
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old farmer
Silver Level Access Joined: 12 Oct 2011 Location: Sturgis, Mich Points: 341 |
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Our soybeans were shipped on skids that weighed 3200 pounds. Series 4 D17 handled it fine. It had a 500 model loader.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21487 |
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Now you know why I have 3 D-14s Had 4 but sold one....The dbl skid allows you to lift the pelletsand the top skid as the btm skid can be 'ice welded' to the ground. What I meant about the rubber, is the D-14 could have $1000 'worth' in good tires, so the rest of the tractor is only $2K... I'm still stuck plowing and tilling HER veggy garden but it's all good 'tractor seat time'. Jay |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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Jay,
Thanks for the information. I store the pellets in the front garage on cement, so rot isn't much of a worry. I do want to load up on an extra pallet, or two, just in case. They will be stored inside the new shop I am in the process of building. The cost of rubber doesn't really bother me, $1k is less than a good set for my dually, and I'm picky on what brand I run. I'm sure I will find more uses for it as it goes along but I can't see me spending $15k on a small use tractor, plus I like the old school machines better. My only concern is that if my wife figures out how to drive it, I will lose that one too. I lost my JD X300 to her when she wanted to mow the front yard. |
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Ray54
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4366 |
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Until you get a lot bigger tractor,something over 70 hp I would think lifting a ton is asking a lot. If your good with getting the load down to 1400 or 1500 lbs I think this maybe as good as any other possiblity.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21487 |
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OK, I have a D-14, pwr stg ,front pump and loader. It EASILY lifts 1000# giant pumpkins once a year, only time I use it. If you can , I'd split up the pellet loads.Also place on 2 high skids. The lower one will sink into the ground and rot, takes about a year or so. Everything here is 'double skided' . You can also buy/build a rear 'carryall' I did that for D-14 #1 and it will lift 1200-1400# logs no problem though steering can be 'fun' when the front wheels lift off ! Good rubber for a D-14 is easily a $1000 bill and generally will outlive you. I've never mowed with a D-14, though I have 3F plow, 5'rototiler,cults,landrake and 4' roller . All get used/abused buy me to prep wife's 1/2 ac veggy plot. Jay |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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Even if you had the hydraulics would the torque tube take it?
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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Lonn,
It's a rear mounted pump on this one. |
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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If the D14 had a front mounted pump then it might lift that weight.
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-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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Thanks John. I figured that I wouldn't be able to do everything I want. The pallet lifting would be only a couple times in the winter. I would plan on adding a couple of forklift arms to the bucket and lift the pallet. I could remove half of the bags to lower weight and that would be a little less work on the old back. I would think that a WD or D would be able to lift 1k lbs without too much effort, and I wouldn't be going to far. I will look for the rear discharge on the mower. Not a fan of turning around with a blade or snow blower, so I agree with you there.
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john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9263 |
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AFIC, The D14 is ideal for your first two tasks. I have 5 acres and it was well fitted to mowing it with a 6' finish mower. Get a Woods rear discharge, or whatever you get make sure it's a rear discharge. You could build a front blade for it or put one on a trip bucket loader frame. You could use a rear blade, but it gets old, real quick, turning half way around to watch what you are doing. A blower is another option except for the same turning around thing. I don't think any D series tractor except maybe the D19 is capable of lifting the pallet. If you are on a hard surface, buy a forklift. If you are not, buy an all terrain forklift. There is an AC one in the auction mentioned in a previous post and it's in your area. In my opinion the 100 series and above are excessive for mowing. Especially if you have trees and buildings to navigate around. I.M.H.O. You are not going to find one tractor, alone, that fits the three tasks you want to do.
Edited by john(MI) - 12 Nov 2019 at 2:12pm |
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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What would be a better option to do that? |
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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A D14 doesn't have the hydraulics to lift a 2000# pallet with the loader.
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 7946 |
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You,ll just get mad !
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Sinbad
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2019 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 11 |
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Thank you for the recommendations. I have found a D14 with a Utility loader for $3k with good rubber. I'm considering that. My only concern is being able to move 2000 lbs. of wood pellets on a pallet. I'm not real worried about moving snow or mowing. Those are the "time to myself" chores that I can take my time on.
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8168 |
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Sinbad,
Welcome! I think your about fight on your list. The D series in the newer styles had improved hydraulics I believe. So a D15 with a loader and three point might work good for you too! Good luck with your search! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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