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8050 N7 engine swap |
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Plates are at machine shop.he said max of 6 weeks, but more than likely it will be sooner. Should be 400 bucks or less for the plate too. I'll keep y'all updated.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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Unit3
Orange Level Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Location: NC Iowa Points: 5502 |
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I thought the rear plates had the same bolt pattern.
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Crank flange, yes. Rear engine bolt pattern, no.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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GregStremel
Bronze Level Joined: 06 Aug 2013 Points: 81 |
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Your project is intriguing. I understand that you have an N7 engine ready to install.
We have an an N7 that we would like to overhaul. It runs strong but uses some oil. We have not found a rebuild kit. We could not get a new water pump last summer, we had to put a salvage unit in. Have you found a source for parts to rebuild that engine? |
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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victoryallis
Orange Level Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Location: Ludington mi Points: 2858 |
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Drivetrain will not last three years if he racks any hours up. But hey he knows all. |
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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Are you two snitty at each other?
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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I asked my local dealer about parts availability. He said mostly everything was no problem to get. That was one thing I wanted to know before I bought the engine.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Havent got a clue who he is. Some people dont like it when someone tries something new or different from the norm.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4777 |
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I know of 2 8070's with C series Cummins swaps, and they both have had geartrain failure. Randy on here is one. I think his took a tooth off a range gear? My buddy the Agco parts dealer/repair shop is working on one now, again, this time has a need for a trans main shaft, and also has gear teeth issues. While great drivetrains, adding that much torque to them after all these years of who knows what kind of life, there's bound to be trouble. Tyler only plans to use on pto chopper, so he may be fine.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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I still say Allis should have done this from the beginning........ with the needed improvements to the drive train. I think the 516 was a great engine.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19560 |
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Probably my engine choice ( no $$$ limit) would be a 6.7 Cummins or even an older 5.9 Cummins, both set at 220 to 240 HP flywheel @ 2550 RPM's. Both are capable of 2700 RPM's all day long and the torque would be better than a 426 but not killer torque as the extra RPM's would increase the transmissions ability to live. If you read the design/development paper on the 7080 tractor, that was one of their arguments for increasing the rated RPM's to 2550 instead of 2300, was to help keep the transmission together. That's also why the 8550/4W305 had a much bigger transmission, the other tranny was maxxed out.
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Would love to use a common rail 6.7 set at said power. Awesome startability and awesome fuel economy! With the right tune, be pretty cool!
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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Chad (MN)
Orange Level Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Location: sc minnesota Points: 288 |
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Not sure if the old posts still exist but I believe Mark (427435) shared that the Harvey plant 'charged' the tractor division by the cubic inch. Therefore, in order to save cost, the sales department seemed to demand smaller cubed engines to be turned up in order to meet the price point. Long story short, the 516 was too expensive and outdated for the tractor division to use so they were looking to suppliers like Cummins, Perkins, Komatsu (8095)for other options.
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220 3-190XT 2-D19d D19g 5-D17 UC 3-WC 2-WD 3-WD45 CA C H3 7-AllCrops 14-plows 3-Gleaners Lawnmowers SC-equipment
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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I have a very nice rotary pump 12valve Cummins sitting here. Just waiting for the right recip. An 8010/30 with fwd and powershift would work nicely.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19560 |
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Industrial Cummins ??... so, the governor would be the right type?? What year do you think it is and what was the rated HP @ what RPM's ??
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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1989 Dodge D350. Non intercooled ,160hp. One owner who knew how to care for it. I understand there is some governor work required but nothing drastic. Also the rotary pump is desired for simplicity if nothing else. The Oliver boys do it a lot. |
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bigal121892
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Location: Nebraska Points: 743 |
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The 426 barely holds together at 210Hp. The 516 in the N7 is 270Hp, probably their only choice, if they wanted to stay in house.
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randy
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 1177 |
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Your right Ed, my 8070 spun off 1 tooth off one gear and 3 teeth off 1 gear after about 50 hours with the 8.3 in it. When i got the tractor several years ago i changed all the oil in the rear end and transmisson and took out the screen in the bottom and all screen and oil looked good. 2 years ago i put in the cummins in and then had transmission problems. But we only found 3 teeth. oil was clean and no silver stuff in the tranny housing. Not sure where the other tooth was or how long is was missing. When i got parts from North Side salvage they had seen the same thing a few times with a 426 engine. Who knows how long it was missing 1 tooth. Dr Allis recomended that i use 5 low range for tillage, straight through the tranny, less stress on the tranny.
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CA WD WD45 D17 D17 Diesel 7060 8050 8070
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Kevin in WA
Orange Level Access Joined: 08 Feb 2010 Location: Lynden, WA Points: 607 |
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Were the teeth knocked off the input gears in the front of the transmission?
If so, I was told that was from shifting the PD at a real low rpm and under a load, at low rpm the PD doesn't modulate well and you end up with harsh shift.
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
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What I don't understand is how a company can be so disjointed that the engine plant works against using its own engines by treating the West Allis plant like an outside customer. It's all the same company! Edited by Lonn - 04 May 2019 at 4:23am |
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19560 |
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Caterpillar would have been using an engine of 630 cubes or more in their dozer of that HD11 size, also rated at what seems to be very low HP. That's the way construction equipment is/was. Farm equipment doesn't shoot for 20,000+ hrs of engine life like construction equipment does and seems like 10K life is even high for hrs. At the time the 8000 series was being built, Deere had already been at the 466 platform size and IH was too, and Ford/NH was at 474. The 426 was the same physical size as that, but AC refused to make needed design changes to increase bore or stroke to gain 40 cubes. ( For the record, I know that an IH DT-466 crankshaft can be installed in a 426 with enough machine work, but the point is the engines were identical in physical size).The 516 was too heavy and cost too much and was NOT as fuel efficient and could not run in the RPM range that was needed for the driveline. As far as the claim Harvey charged the Ag Division by the cubic inch, that would be incorrect I believe. I can assure you that a non-turbo 301 (84 flywheel HP) cost less that a 4 cyl 200/433-T-I (95 flywheel HP) and probably cost less than a 200/433-T (85 flywheel HP).
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randy
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 1177 |
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If i remember right, the bottom shaft gear in the front of the tranny was the one that lost the teeth and the top shaft gears teeth were damaged, both were replaced. It is an early 8070 with the bigger final drives and 2 wheel drive.
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CA WD WD45 D17 D17 Diesel 7060 8050 8070
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4777 |
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The other repowered one I referred to is the one you went and looked at south of Walnut. Rob has it all torn down now.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4777 |
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Honestly, the VE governor used on the Dodge pickup engines was a variable speed unit, and would be just fine for a tractor. The inline P7100 from 94-98 would have the RQV-K governor which is more of a truck governor, (something using a gas pedal basically) but it would still work ok in a tractor, since the "V" in RQV means variable speed.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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ACjack
Silver Level Joined: 13 Sep 2014 Location: Peoria, Arizona Points: 274 |
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From my 12 years at the Harvey Engine plant I always felt just the opposite; that West Allis treated the Harvey plant as the red headed step child.
Edited by ACjack - 04 May 2019 at 9:19am |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11398 |
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I'll bet that's exactly right....2 way street. We have a sister plant 1/2 mile away, with the same Plant manager, and all the fingers are always pointing the other direction. People just love to horde up....it's natural!
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Reindeer
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Calgary, AB Points: 650 |
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Not to hijack the thread, but its been my experience that people are really quick and comfortable to point out what someone else is doing to them, but pretty slow to look in their own back yard at what difficulties their own decisions have created.
Worse yet, I seem to be most logical about 3 years after I made a bad decision. Emotion can carry you along for awhile, but eventually reality sinks in.
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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