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M Crawler for Brush Clearing? |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 10:24pm |
A friend of mine is selling his M dozer (Don't remember what year) and I was thinking of buying it for clearing light brush and trees, the brush being shin oak and the trees being red cedar and blackjack oak with the very largest having trunks about 12" in diameter.
Anyone used an M for this sort of work? I know small crawlers can do big work on trees if you take you time and cut the roots with the blade first, but I thought I'd see if there's any first-hand accounts.
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Reindeer
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Calgary, AB Points: 650 |
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I have used an old D4 for pushing out trees. Larger trees >12" can take a lot of time with a small dozer. Start by pushing up a ridge that you can get the cat tipped a bit, and start cutting roots with the corner of the blade. Keep working around the side you want to push it over from, and when it looks like it might fall, get the blade as high as you can on the trunk to increase your leverage. If at first you don't succeed, back to digging out roots. Getting your machine tilted a bit, so the blade corner digs in is a bit of learned art. Where to pile dirt so you get the right blade angle at the right time, and place takes practice.
One way to increase leverage is to weld a heavy piece of plate to the top corner of the blade so it sticks out past the end a foot or so. This increases your leverage as you can get 2 or 3 feet higher on the trunk. Needs to be very well attached to the blade frame, or you will be reattaching it regularly. Smaller brush you can either walk down, or start picking it apart with the corner of the blade. We used to put the blade high, and just drive right over the smaller trees at right angles to the direction that you would be piling the trees. Then come back with a toothed blade (brush rake) at 90 degrees to the direction you walked the brush down. Push into piles, and have a weiny roast. We used to call this process breaking new land, but usually most of the breaking was equipment failing. A very difficult and time consuming job. We had a fair sized stump ranch where I grew up, and breaking land was a continuous process. Edited by Reindeer - 15 Dec 2018 at 10:40am |
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8168 |
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Creston,
You know you dont need permission from us to buy another Allis unit! If you can get it, do it. Something about pushing dirt and trees that brings out the kid in you too! My friend Ted has two M's. Not sure of the condition. But that is a nice small dozer. Check it out good. get some pictures on here too. Does it run? Is the running gear and tracks decent? I think these may be small enough that you can load and take to some shows also. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Hopefully I'll go check it out today. I've seen it many times, but never paid much attention, as it was always back in the shed. It does run well and drive, but I don't know enough about crawlers to make the call as to what's worn and what isn't. I know this guy really well, though, and if there's an issue he knows of, he'll tell me. I'll get pics if I go look.
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8168 |
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If it has PTO you can pull the AllCrop's in wet conditions!!:)
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Good point, haha! Wet harvest? No problem! Just dual up the combine and mud the crop out.
Didn't get over there today, so hopefully tomorrow.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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A couple more questions in the meantime...
if in the future the need arises, how hard is it to get parts for these machines? Are parts still available aftermarket, or do I need to find a parts crawler? Secondly, what are the major things I need to inspect when looking at the machine? Is there a way to test the steering clutches, or is it one of those "they either work or they don't" things? Lastly, were there winches or rippers available for these crawlers? Thanks!
Edited by CrestonM - 15 Dec 2018 at 8:33pm |
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Alberta Phil
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Points: 3657 |
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It has the same engine as the Allis 'U'. Norm Meinert has some parts available--mostly engine parts. The undercarriage/ track system is the critical thing on any crawler.
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Bill Long
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bel Air, MD Points: 4556 |
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Just remember when you work with crawler tractors there is a lot of HEAVY IRON items that need or could need attention. Check the steering case closely. I had a cousin who bought an M that had a cracked steering gear case and would not steer left. Also, the tracks. Do they sag when they go over the top sprocket. Means pins are worn. The M is a great crawler. We had a customer who swore by them. It would be an outstanding addition to any collection. Just be careful. Crawlers can be money pits. Good Luck! Bill Long
Edited by Bill Long - 15 Dec 2018 at 10:04pm |
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8168 |
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Oh yea I forgot about the money pit thing! Bill we werent supposed to tell him till after he brought it home!:)
I dont know about steering one of these as it may be way different than my off color IH. But in general, if you have some steering in both directions, your way ahead as compared to NO steering! Looks to be similar to most in that era. You may need to use the brakes to get it to turn.
Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Yea, I'd heard about the money pit thing before, which was my biggest concern. If I get it, I won't be using it more than about 50 hours a year, so hopefully things hold together. The current owner has had it for maybe 10 years, and has never had any issues yet. I'll know more here in an hour or so.
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Bob-Maine
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Central Maine Points: 922 |
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Creston, I can't speak to the M but I have a '63 H-3 (not operating right now) and it is a super machine. Bob@allisdowneast
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I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not sure.
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8168 |
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Creston,
Just kidding, kind of. On mine I have used it 10 hours max in the 4 years I have owned it. and worked on it about 400 hrs. :) Just saying. Hope its a good one and you bring it home. If it is in good working order your projects sound just right for it. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13611 |
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come on guys...ya'll know why he really wants it! it's to pull his combine outta the mud at Hutch! (poke,poke)
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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You know Shameless, when I asked if it had a PTO, the owner chimed in, "Hey! You can run a combine with it! Use it to mud out the crop!" Guess it'd pull out the Super 100, too...Lol!
I went and took a look at it, and got to have a little fun digging in the dirt, testing everything out. Starts easily, runs great, no oil leaks, no smoke, lots of lugging power when pushing dirt. It was in the 40s outside, so the hydraulics were a little sluggish at first, but they aren't too bad once they warm up (PTO driven pump) They raise the blade faster than they lower it. Has a float feature for the blade, which I really like. Steering was ok I thought. If you just pull on either of the hand levers, it will gradually turn in the corresponding direction, but the foot brakes are needed quite a bit. The brakes squeal some, but they work quite well. Doesn't take much foot pressure to lock down one set of tracks and spin the machine around. One funny thing I noticed is the machine turns much better using only the hand clutches when going in reverse. Don't need the steering brakes nearly as much to make a good turn around. Undercarriage looked good I thought. Sprockets didn't seem to be abnormally worn, and the bushings are in great shape. Nice and round, not much wear there. Rails look good. New grousers were welded on a few years ago. Now what you're all here for....pics! Foolish me didn't think to get pics until after I parked it, so these will have to do. Paint is actually decent, it's just covered in about a year's worth of dust. The blade and roll cage were made by the previous owner. They're actually well made, and I'm impressed with the workmanship. Everything I saw was bolt-on and could be removed if one desired. Haven't sealed the deal yet, but I'm thinking we may get it. Owner is a good friend, and not in too much of a hurry, so it gives me a little time to think. He's asking $2,500. Y'all think that's good/low/high? |
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GARY(OH/IN)
Orange Level Joined: 19 May 2010 Location: Findlay,Ohio Points: 917 |
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I've been checking Creston's post every night but no one has answered his question. You have all spun off in all directions but will it take down trees a foot in diameter? I had the same thought of a M for my own use but doubt I could find as nice a machine. Or at that price!
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cwhit
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sigel IL Points: 963 |
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Creston , I also have an M. Make the deal...
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Gary Burnett
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 2854 |
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I had a M with a blade years ago it was a real neat piece to own and do a few things with but for a serious machine to push up trees and brush I wouldn't want to use it much. I could do more with a good size tractor with a blade and a subsoiler or ripper on the back. But it is a nice dozer and if you like it and have the money to spare I wouldn't think you could go wrong buying it.
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8588 |
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From prices I've seen them advertised for like on craigslist, that's a pretty darn good deal. Darrel
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allisrutledge
Orange Level Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Location: SurgoinsvilleTN Points: 1352 |
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Look at the pins on the tracks and make sure they are good. Someone has spent more than the asking price on a brush guard and did a fair job of not destroying the M by adding it . I've got a one that don't have a blade. At my age I don't think I would won't to run it 8 hrs a day. Not knowing the trees you have be hard to answer. If they are shallow rooted like cedar and most soft wood I think it would be fine. But if the trees have a tap root like a locusts or oak I think I'd want something newer bigger and more comfortable. As far as parts ,be looking for a spare M to buy if you are thinking of using it. Engine parts are available but final drives and undercarriage parts are non existent. It looks great and I would like it to play with , Not to use but you have less miles and ache a less than I so I say buy it but use it like you were using your grandads tractor and he was watching you!!! Good luck
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Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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I may have answered my own question in driving it. It would push out some small trees, but it wouldn't take out a 12" very easy. Would be a lot of forward/reverse shifting and lots of root cutting. Yes, a large dozer would be better for large trees. In the first post I said the trees were mostly cedar, with some oak. Most of the oak are kinda scrawny, because we don't get much rain. A majority of the cedars are 8' tall or less. Not sure what that corresponds to in years. I think it would do a fair job if I'm careful. The main task would be moving small brush piles together for burning that were built several years ago.
I'm thinking we may give it a go, and if it's too small for the work I want to do, I could always sell it.
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CAL(KS)
Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3742 |
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it is definitely in good shape and i think the price is reasonable. but take it from a guy with bigger crawlers, they are never big enough. when you get this make sure you are using it within reason, you are not going to just drive up to big tree and push it over. for moving dirt around yes it will be fun but it will be slow. trees and solid objects are alot harder on a machine than just pushing dirt around. looks like the pump drive is on the back, so not live, somewhat irritating but usable. if you havnt used a skidsteer much you will like it, but if you have it may feel underwhelming. again its a neat machine in good shape but how you use it will determine how much you like it.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 17 Dec 2018 at 9:18am |
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Cal, yes I've spent a little time in a Deere 329D skidsteer, and this is a little more crude than that. Lol
You were correct about the hydraulics not being live. Not "ideal" but I can tolerate that. Here's a photo from Google Maps showing what I've got to work on. Most of the trees are like this, except for the oaks. |
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CAL(KS)
Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3742 |
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ceders are pretty easy to remove. you shouldnt have trouble if that is what your looking to do. the oaks will be tough.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 17 Dec 2018 at 10:07am |
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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It’ll be interesting to see how the oaks do. Some of them are about 15’ tall, but the ground is soft sandy loam, thanks to the Dust Bowl. I’ve pulled some of those oaks (alive) out with a 1996 F-350 gas in 4-Low with just a couple tugs. Traction is always the biggest issue in this soft soil.
When I pull the disc, the gangs sink to their axles without any weights added. |
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13611 |
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i'll gives him $2500. for it, $3000. if he delivers it here! oh....and just drive past that area you wanna clear and throw a cigar (lit) in there! it'll save you a little time!
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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I know you're right on this one. We've burned ground before, with nice results the following spring.
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50628 |
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Stick a finger or 2 up into the rails, and see if you can feel if the bushings are wore out. For that money, better jump on it, if the UC ain't wore out!
As for a burn job, take a box of strike anywhere matches with you, and get the burn started in an area where you put down some tracks... then go to the other end, and start workin there, helps if the wind is driving, in a favorable direction, thattaway, when the FD shows up, you can say this ole machine musta blew a spark out, when it backfired...
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Haha! The rural fire dept. is literally about 3 blocks away!
I felt the bushings and looked them over. Almost perfectly round, not showing much wear. I'm not familiar with dozers, what all is covered by the term "undercarriage"?
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8168 |
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Creston,
I think is worth what they are asking. In fact might be worth twice that to the right collector. You cant go wrong. Thanks for the report and the pictures. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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