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D14 ? |
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john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9263 |
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Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 2:15pm |
1957 D14 question. If I have the rear wheels off. and a very well stocked garage. How long would it take to change the brakes and any other seals that may need changing? What parts should I buy before starting on the job? I am already thinking it would a lot quicker and easier if I buy pre-lined brakes. Thanks for any input you can provide. I'll probably look to see if there is a video on you tube.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 951 |
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First, do you have the D14 service manual and if so, have you reviewed the brake, differential, and final drive sections? Second, have you reviewed the brake, differential, and final drive sections in the parts catalog, if you have one, or on line at AGCO Parts Books? You can purchase downloads, discs, or hard copies at https://www.agcopubs.com/ if you don’t have the service manual. I have seen things on YouTube that are good info and likely as many, maybe more, that aren’t.
What parts to have on hand? Unless you are set up to rivet linings, lined shoes will be a plus. At a minimum you have a seal on the inner side of each final drive pinion and a seal in each differential carrier for the inner end of the pinion shaft. Oil leaking at inner (differential) seal could contaminate the shoes. Not as likely with a leak at the seal out near the final drive pinion. You can replace the shoes without removing the pinion shaft from the final drive housing, or the brake drum from the pinion shaft if those are ok. I would get the seals, the brake shoes, and return springs. Bearings if you think there is a problem with them. I have some suppliers that will get parts, if they are normal warehouse stock, in ahead for me and allow returning what I don’t need. Your being able to do that depends on you and your suppliers. A lot of the AC bearing and seal part numbers can be crossed to SKF, C/R, Federal, etc. No slight intended but time to do it is a guess; not knowing your shop, you, or how much “help” you might have with the project. I would say a day per side should be really easy, including replacing the carrier seals, but not disturbing the pinion shaft or drum. Depending on a number of things, including the length of your work day, you might get both in a day. You should check the internal diameter of the drums while you are doing it. This doesn’t include any work on drums, beyond checking them, or final drives. Someone on here may have the flat rate hours for this they will post. Just my thoughts for what they are worth. |
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DSeries4
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7304 |
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Replace the axle seals while you are in there. Only remove 1 axle at a time or else the bull gear will drop. Ordering the seals and a brake kit with new shoes and springs should make for a pretty quick change. Removing a fender and having a cherry picker to move the axle will help a lot.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29781 |
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There used to be people with old flat rate manuals here, on this site, I thought, that could give you approximate time involved. For transmissions or engine work it was a general rule that if it was the first time for you to do that type of work you triple the time the book says. And that was with proper tools. At least that what my mechanics teacher always said....... I think....... was 25 years ago.
Edited by Lonn - 13 Dec 2018 at 7:11am |
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 951 |
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DSeries4,
Just a terminology difference here, I think, but just to clarify. Do you mean axle or pinion shaft? The brake drums are on the pinion shafts. The seals that are most likely to let oil onto the brake shoes are in the differential bearing carriers. The differential case/ring gear will drop if both pinion shafts are pulled out and a differential bearing carrier is pulled. Leaving the pinion shaft in one side and blocking the ring gear so as to hold it to that side, will keep it from moving far when the carrier on the side the pinion shaft is out of is removed. Pulling an axle will "drop" a bull gear; as the bull gear in each final is carried by the one axle in that final. If I remember right the differential bearing carriers have to be pulled to get to the seals. It is important to watch for shims between the carrier and main case and to re-install them “as found” to maintain the ring and pinion gearset mesh. If bearings need to be changed it would require checking backlash and possibly shim changes if correction was needed. |
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john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9263 |
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Thank you all for sharing your knowledge on this subject. I guess I feel a little overwhelmed by the project. I have never ventured into anything of this size before. I was less intimidated replacing the clutch and associated parts as well as changing the front bolster to a power steering unit. It just appears that you need to remove so many pieces and parts to get this new job accomplished it could take me and my friend a week, and he has a hoist and an electric trolley lift.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 951 |
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John,
It sounds worse than it is. Basically; jack it up and support, drain the transmission/differential oil and pull a wheel/tire off. Remove the fender and running board, unhook the brake rod, pull the final and you are at the brakes. Of course while the final is off it is a good time to do all the bearings and seals. As always you can inspect and decide how far you want to go. If your axles (wheel centers bolt to the axles) are tight(bearings feel good when turning and the seals aren't leaking) in the final drive you don't need to disturb those. The bearings at the outer end of the pinion shaft hold it in the final drive. So unless the pinion seal inside the final drive housing is leaking, or those bearings feel bad, you don't need to disturb the pinion shaft. You just remove the final and set it aside. The seals in the differential carriers have the most potential to leak and ruin brake shoes. Getting to them is not that bad, just do one side at a time so the differential case/ring gear stays in place. You didn't say what if any manuals you have. If you don't have the AC service manual, get it and study it along with the parts diagrams for the brakes, final drive, and differential. This will all make more sense. There have been posts, some with photos, here in the past about D14 and D15 brakes (they are the same arrangement) you can find and review. HTH. Jim |
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polarbear
Silver Level Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: addieville il Points: 331 |
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d-10 d-12 d-14 d-15 are all the same brake linings with rivets available form DJS TRACTOR PARTS
Two O-rings and two seals is all you need as for as parts are concerned these are also the same as d-10 thru d-15 Just done this on my d-10 that is why I know this the riveting tool is about $100 dollar unless you can borrow one hope this helps NOT TWO HARD A JOB ABOUT 6 0N SCALE OF 1-10 |
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wfmurray
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Bostic NC Points: 1225 |
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Done my D 14 one side in one evening after work.Jacked up took wheel off.Took other things loose and put a saw horse under housing and pulled it of by hand .Repaired brake put in seal and put back togather. Relined shoes on B .Got liners and rivets . Put square ended punch in vise size of rivet head and spread rivet with a flare ended punch Start in middle and work out. It can be done without special tool .
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Lon(MN)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Elk River,MN Points: 1955 |
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Took me three years, but that's another story.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22264 |
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yeesh, I've had the seals sitting on the shelf for 4 years.... now, if you want to practice..... come on up.... have warm garage, overhead beam and trolleys, oldies music, ...... Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4598 |
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If you want / need brake or clutch parts. contact Rick Corder. He does en excellent job on all of his rebuilds.
I have never done a D-14. I have done a WD45 and a 180. I can't imagine getting one done in one day, unless you have done them before, know what you're doing, have extra help and every part cooperates. I've spent a full day getting the pins out of a WD45.
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Lon(MN)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Elk River,MN Points: 1955 |
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Lots of places to get brake parts. Chances are when you clean the oil off, everything will be fine. G tractors use the same brakes.
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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I opened my "Allis Chalmers flat rate manual" on the D14 brakes, here's the time to reline, replace and adjust both set's of brakes. keep in mind this was back when the tractor was new. 5 hours.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13527 |
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Hey John (MI),,check with Rick Corder on here. He will supply what you need or re-line yours for great prices. Good Luck
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Lon(MN)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Elk River,MN Points: 1955 |
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Brake linings with rivets are about $20.00. Even Walmart has them.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8162 |
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Don't forget that "get what ya pay for" thing
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john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9263 |
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I don't have the rivet tool for brakes, and I don't want to have to redo it a month after finishing the job! I used to be good with a peen on a rivet, but I think the brake rivets are a little different! Can I pick up the brakes, bearings and seals at a local parts store, or are they AC Proprietary? This is a lot of good info here. Thank you everyone for your help. You all are welcome to come visit when I get ready to do the job!
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Ranse
Orange Level Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 773 |
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I think this is exactly what I need to do to my D10. I've never done this before either, and I'm worried about starting it. I'm going to wait till after Christmas and I'll post my own thread at that time, but this has been and interesting read.
Jim.ME, sounds like you know your way around this area. I wish I had your experience. |
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