HD11G help

Ian you mentioned something in that thread about the plunger being stuck in a up or down position. Up you thought it may block fuel from leaking off into the injectors and down, I gathered it may dump fuel to them. I haven't read the whole thread yet but is it possible the plunger is stuck down and fill the cylinders with fuel? If so this gives me wishful thoughts about the oil being way over filled.

My service manual will be here this week and possibly the parts manual. Weather permitting I should be able to start taking this beast apart soon and see what I actually am dealing with, aside from all the obvious damage. My goal is just to move it under it's own power down the hill near the GMC, even better would be to get it to the house on a concrete slab. If it runs and the brakes work I'd be off to a really good start.

Gawd!  That was a while ago.

If the plunger is stuck at the top of its stroke it is past the spill port so diesel can't enter.

If it is at the bottom it can.  And might go further if the distributor slot is aligned with a port - but should only be to one injector.  But as the engine isn't running there will be sfa fuel pressure and if that gets past the injector valvery you have a heap more problems.  I'd guess the diesel tank would need to be full to even get fuel up that high.

I'd reckon that if you got fuel in the oil sitting like that one has it would have come via leaks in the pump itself.  There are two o-rings that seal the transfer pressure space below the head for instance - they aren't special if you need them.  And the seal on the transfer pump shaft can leak.  It is just a standard industrial seal.

Another 2 cents worth

Ronnie

I've just been looking at your pump photos on Page 2 and I hope I'm wrong for your sake.  Go to the third one.

The filter you can see is the primary.  Diesel feed is from the tank, through it, then to the transfer pump and through the secondary to the injection pump.

The hexagon at the back of the head section just in front of the rectangular cover of the top of the govenor section at the rear of the pump is the stud with the square section O-ring.

Then just above it on the back of the head is a brown fuzzy area - which is where the fuel feed hose from the secondary filter is supposed to connect to the head.   The other end of that hose  should connect to the T-fitting from the front of the secondary filter which is just shows in the photo.  So the head has been open to the weather since Joe Fiddler left it.

Would it run like that?  We first started the engine from our grader on an engine stand with a temporary tank.  It did have the plumbing correct but the "reconditioned" injector pump was missing the bottom O-ring for the head so it had a massive diesel leak to the sump and less than design transfer pressure.  It ran like that.  So I guess the answer with yours would be "maybe" - but I doubt it would have made much power.  What would have been fed to the pump as well as diesel if it did doesn't bear thinking about.

IMO the pump is your first port of call.

Today's 2 cents worth

Ronnie

That is the hole.  The detail of the first one was ok after I went and had a look at our grader and was reminded of where things went.  IIRC that port feeds in below the head but that is where the plunger and the gear train that spins the distributor block are so water and /or dirt wouldn't be your friend.

Assuming you can find that missing hose - I'm not sure what the hose material is called.  It is reinforced and what we get has a blue fabric outer.

The head number on one of our pumps is HD 4606AR, which should be an EH 100.  (Correction to previous - 10 mm and 9 mm diameter plungers).  The other one (that works) has a damaged plate.  There is a little spring clip in the plunger area that (IIRC) holds the plunger tappet in the assembly.  You need to be gentle taking the head off or it will get damaged.

If you set about taking the injectors out the thread on the end under the dust cover is 22 mm,  don't remember which thread number.  A piece of our 3/4 water pipe was just right to make an adapter.  I could use a slide hammer as they are out in the open (well relatively) on the grader.  Someone else had to make a puller due to restricted room on the loaders - in an earlier post(s).

I have a .pdf that  lists many of the head numbers - from September 1976 so not much use to either of us.

In case of the worst might be worth finding out if Hector Gemme (Spelling?) who posts here has anything - he had a wrecking yard up in Canada

Later - those injector threads  are 22 x 1.5 mm

Ronnie

Allis used both on HD 11's.  The ADS516 (supercharged Buda) used 100EH.  That "master workshop manual" I borrowed covered all HD 11's and has a list of pumps and the models that used them.   It only had Allis numbers for the pump,  didn't have actual head numbers.   I have some sketchy notes as for a while it looked like we might have to run our grader without a supercharger.  Seems the 90Eh ones are timed at 32 degrees and the 100EH ones at 28.

Under the lid of the govenor section there are various things that look adjustable.  I've never tried.  There might be some indications of what does what in that listing I gave you - I haven't been there.

A complete 100 pump would certainly bolt up.  And probably a 100  head on a pump that had a 90.  Some later heads didn't use that oil feed via the bolt and square washer and needed some sort of extra to work on oil-feed pumps - I don't have details.  My listing of heads doesn't give  alternatives for any numbers we've mentioned so probably not a problem here.

I'd guess that a 100 pump at worst might run a bit rich.  At least with a diesel if it were to run lean you'll only be down on power - you won't burn the engine.

You can get a look inside your pump when it is on the engine by taking off the cover that has the shut-off in it - the one with 2 screws below the head.   That will give you a look at the drive gear for the head and the general condition in there.  There is a marked tooth on that gear you have to use for timing so you need to know where the pump drive was if you take the head off.  And (IIRC) there is a loop in the oil return line from the bottom of the pump which might tell you if the last thing that went through was oil.

So seems to me that your pump has to come off because of the risk of damage from turning the engine.  And then you'll know where you stand with the pump.

And once it is off you can explore the engine as to stuck or not etc.

Also if it is an early model your starter might be a Dyer drive type.  If it is burnt you can use an M40 IIRC.

Close to all I can think of on this

I am curious on your grader what is the injector pop off pressure? This one says 2100psi new, used is 2k.

Now I am really curious about the pumps as well. In the 10mm plunger did they keep the same stroke of the plunger or did they shorten it? In non forced induction systems I am thinking they would have to shorten it to keep the same mixture. Or is the amount fuel delivered controlled by the volume of the head?

Seems to me the heart of a diesel is the injection pump, needs to be in a perfectly healthy condition.

I realize this is getting into the very technical aspects and some of my questions may seem trivial but it really does help me understand how all this works together. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel just want to understand the how and why of the invented wheel.

One last thing according to the re-stamped pump# on my engine it's the 9mm @ 32 degrees. It looks like the original number may have been for the 28 degree. Right now I can only assume the 9mm pumps are interchangeable with the only difference being the timing gear.

A fuel pump Dude over here thinks that an american bosch pump from an international can be fitted as you can still get parts for them (just have to make new injector lines )

I did catch something today when I was reading this again

In the diagram it's called the control sleeve and somewhere in there it said something about it controlling the amount fuel, not pressure but the actual volume. 

So many questions and nothing to compare to :( 

You have a couple of old pumps you care to mic? lol

This is kind of specific to design not sure if I can find specs this detailed.

Steve AD

Likely an Ambac 100.  The injection lines come off the head at an angle.  I've heard of that possibility.  But also that the parts situation is heading south.

Also worth reading about them

If you can replace an AMBAC 100 with a Bosch A series inline then why not a PSB replacement for a possibility?

I vaguely remember seeing something about some military 516's having Stanadyne pumps too - no details

If you want to move it, you will likely find the brake bands stuck to the drums in the rear end- just a heads up.. they can be loosened off pretty easy, but those tractors are really hard to move if they won't roll!

Well considering the hard to find parts are what seems to go bad probably not much of a good donor from what I know about it at this point. I'll know more when I can get a vehicle to it. 

Ian Beale

I went the other day to look for the engine tag. It's partially melted and none of the numbers are even close to readable, only somewhat legible was"lmers MFG" and USA. Pretty sure the filter does sit on top of the base.

It's gonna take me a bit to source these parts. After the new year I'll start asking around. I do know there is some old machines up here. Who knows maybe I'll find a good barn find.