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Ken in Texas 
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 Topic: weight placement options
Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 8:37am |
to keep the front down to a minimum lift on a CA? Going to play with some moveable belly weights hanging straight down from the rear bolt holes in the torque tube. In 3000 class 100 pounds ahead of the axle and 400 at the drawbar behind the axle. Bare Bones the CA & Me weighs 2500. Maybe in 3500 - 200 at the midway and 800 behind the axle. ONE Engine Sideweight way up front may be too much front weight in the wrong place 3000. Yah just never know till you try. The way I originally set my CA up for pulling The lightest class was 3500 up to 4500. Some tough competition in these weight divisions for a tractor with 13-6 24 tires.
Edited by Ken in Texas - 18 Oct 2018 at 8:38am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 8:54am |
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100 lbs just ahead of the radiator does as much or more good than 200 lbs hanging from under the battery box.
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PaulB
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Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 4:17pm |
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Ken: Watch those videos of my tractors. I run about 200 pounds about 24” out front for the 2500 pound class. For the 3000 I put over 300 out front most of the time, that keeps the front down until it really gets pulling hard.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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DSpears N IL
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Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 7:40pm |
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 3:12am |
Thanks For the pics Spears Then there is also the question of drawbar length. Most club rules have a minimum of 18" from the centerline of the rear axle to the hook point and no limit on length. From a leverage standpoint with a hook point set at a 20" height and the sled chain at its lowest setting a longer drawbar will lift the front quicker while transferring the whole weight of the tractor to the rear tires at the same time. Equals Traction DSpears. Could you show us a photo of your drawbar setup? From the photos it looks like the front end of your drawbar is attached to the where the pin hitch or snap couple bell is located. I posted a photo of mine here recently. I will measure the length after breakfast. I'm sure its much more than the required minimum of 18". Mine runs uphill to the 20" hook point. A 3" angle iron between final drives support the drawbar and is used to hang weights on too. How many CA pullers have water in the tires. I did when I started out pulling at 3500
Edited by Ken in Texas - 19 Oct 2018 at 3:15am
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WF owner
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Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 5:54am |
The 18" from the center of the rear wheels is the optimum IF you can get the front end fairly light with the short drawbar. Most stock tractors were built with quite a lot of front end weight, so a longer hitch is needed (for leverage). In this area, tractor pull tracks range from stone dust to heavy clay. Harder, clay tracks give much more traction so a shorter hitch works better. I always liked to have adjustment in my hitch, both up and down and in and out. Power and traction are the biggest factors, but usually, you have what you have for power and tires. Balance , IMHO, is the most important variable in tractor pulling.
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DSpears N IL
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Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 7:45pm |
Ken my draw bar is the standard snap-coupler with 2 stiffeners sandwiched top 1" and bottom 1/2" for adjusting the 18" pulling height with a twisted clevis. The length of the draw bar will be No less than 35" from the center of the axle or 14" from the end of the PTO shaft if available. tire size is limited to 145 Sq IN max for up to 3900#.  |
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 7:48am |
Spears I see all your rear weight is wheel weights. Looks like no rear brackets for adding more rearweight I hang lots of added weight on angle iron between bull gear housings. Presently I'm using a long pin hitch drawbar clamped to the bottom of the angle iron. Measures 26 inches to the tip of a twisted clevis from the axle center. I have a short bar for the minimum 18". Before I had any Hanging weights I was using a C flat hoop drawbar with a wood box on top loaded with chunks of drill collar. Plus water and 135# wheel weights. The long bar creates lots of leverage lifting the front pretty easy under load. The last few pulls I dumped all the weight I could and got down to 2460 certified weight. 2 bags of #8 birdshot got me close to my 2500 goal. I lost 25# of myself since the last pull. That's another bag of lead shot Hanging #500 behind the axle made the front crazy light . Bolting on 95 # Side Weights by myself is out of the question while at the pull. I'm trying to balance the 500 pounds with part of it ahead of the axle and not way out front. My weight bracket is done below the tool box door and now the experiment begins Friday. I hope they use me Friday to set the sled for the light weight classes. I'm figuring a quick way to run either a short or long fixed height drawbar while at the pull. 4 or 8 more 5/8 flat washers and 2 15/16 wrenches plus a crawl in the dirt should do it . Try a short bar first.
Edited by Ken in Texas - 20 Oct 2018 at 8:03am
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DSpears N IL
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Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 2:31pm |
 Ken ! I have a couple issues with weight placement! We can not have any added weight extend beyond the rear of the back tires. I have strapped a couple suitcase weights tucked above the draw-bar and the bail of the hitch. I made a 2" angle iron bracket to mount on the lift arms, but the suit case weights extend out past the rear tires. This year, I left 1 pair of rear wheel weights on all the time and started pulling in the 3500# and 3750# weight classes only. Of course having some movable weight placement for various track conditions. I do like my belly weight bracket for Quick changes in weight and placement! ( Not as good as behind the axle for traction). My 2 pair of engine side weights, 40#, and 75# suitcase can be placed forward or rear for best weight transfer. We have usually 3-4 pullers in each class, so I do Not have much time to load weights and re scale before the next pull.
DeWayne
Edited by DSpears N IL - 20 Oct 2018 at 2:34pm
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 9:23am |
 2500# Bareback CA Replaced a C flat drawbar that fit with a straight across 3" angle iron using the same mounting system. A place to hang #100 suitcase weights so not to extend out past the rear tires. This pic is using the long pin hitch drawbar. Because of the angle upward the clevis height is 19". With the short drawbar the clevis height is 17" Height of angle iron is fixed. Note the black bungee holding the seat pan down. Lost the seat support spring going down the road. Lucky the spring stayed on the trailer.
Edited by Ken in Texas - 21 Oct 2018 at 9:26am
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WF owner
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 10:01am |
Do your rules specify that you must use a clevis? Our rules allow a fixed plate with a 3" hole. The advantage to the plate is that you have a stationary hitch that doesn't tip like a clevis. What is your maximum hitch height? By being at the maximum hitch height, you can usually run a shorter hitch to get the same weight transfer from the sled. I always found that the maximum height hitch and as close as I could get it and still get the front end light, was the absolute best for pulling.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 11:48am |
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The ideal scenario for hanging movable tractor weights, is to use the SAME style weight everywhere on the tractor. This allows the driver to make last second location changes without having to go back to the trailer to get a "different" style of weight. I use 7000 series styled weights of the 90 lb and 60 lb thicknesses. So, I can dial in my weight using a 60 or a 90 or two 60's or a 60 and a 90, etc. My weight can be adjusted every 30 lbs. I also carry two homemade weights that are 10 and 20 lbs and are the same shape as a 7000 weight. Also, with a 1/2" wrench (carried on the tractor) these weights are secured so they cannot ever fall off !! The same 1/2" wrench also adjusts drawbar height when checking in at the scales.
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 6:50pm |
One of my worst nightmares is jacking with suitcase weights over 50 pounds. What are pictured above are 100s . Actually 95 on my farm scale. Dinner is on the table. Be back in a few. I'm back. One of our club members does a nice job of making suitcase style weights out of different thickness plate. My leave these 100 pounders home and borrow 10 50s twice for 3000 and 3500. Or borrow a fellow puller with a size 24 neck and a 6 1/2 hat size to move weights Club rule on half twist or a 3" loop is either or. We always have a clevis or two handy on the sled for greenhorns
Edited by Ken in Texas - 21 Oct 2018 at 7:23pm
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 7:54pm |
Our local Henderson Texas club is no longer a EDGETA Branch. Even so they still follow EDGETA Tractor Pull Rules. See them at www.edgeta.com/safety/ Basic is rubber tired tractors 30 or more years old. 20" max drawbar height. Hook point 16" or more back from the centerline of the rear axle.
Edited by Ken in Texas - 21 Oct 2018 at 7:56pm
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WF owner
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 8:58pm |
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I think you will find a major difference if you use a stationary plate with a 3" hole at 20" high.
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 9:35pm |
The clevis does not move about like you would think. Do you really think a inch or two or three hook point inches makes that much difference. It won't take much fabrication/imagination to move the clevis up to a fixed 20 Inches.
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DSpears N IL
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Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 8:03pm |
 My clevis is like Ken's and will Not tip! My drawbar is set at 18" and I can move the two 1" bars underneath the draw-bar for adjusting height in 1/2 inch increments! The top bar has a 1/2 notch milled away in it! DeWayne  the lift arm weight bracket to hang weights behind the rear axle. Needs more design information!!!!
DeWayne
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WF owner
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Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 8:46pm |
 Ken in Texas wrote:
The clevis does not move about like you would think. Do you really think a inch or two or three hook point inches makes that much difference. It won't take much fabrication/imagination to move the clevis up to a fixed 20 Inches. |
My personal opinion is that 1/4" makes a big difference. Why do you think the majority of guys pulling use a fixed plate or ring, that is set at the maximum height? If height is not an advantage, why is there a rule regulating maximum height? Ask some of the guys that have been pulling for years (PaulB, InjpumpEd, DrAllis, Mack, etc.), how high they run their hitch and if they use a clevis. Unless the hole in your drawbar is almost exactly the size as your clevis pin, the clevis is going to tip some with pressure on it. Have someone video your clevis when you're pulling. Try a fixed plate at 20". In the pulling world, it's a pretty inexpensive thing to try.
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bradley6874
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Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 2:35pm |
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Okay next time you're at a scale Weigh the tractor is 3 x front wheel only whole tractor and rear wheels only , now add 200 pounds to the front weight bracket and weigh the tractor three times again then move the same weights to your belly bar and weigh it three times again then move them to the back brackets and weigh it three times again now you'll see how it affects where the weights are put and you'll see belly bars don't add up🤔🤔🤔
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 5:59pm |
Scaled the CA puller today. Light as I can get with 2 gallons of gas was 2520. When I got home I remembered these rears were once weighted with water. Maybe I just thought I got it all out. SO. I jacked up one side and unscrewed the two piece valve stem and let the air out, Stuck a length of Oxygen tube into the tube and blew in it. I could bubbles in the water. Sucked on it and began to siphon water into a gallon jug. Got smarter and put about 10 pounds of air in then I got 3gal of water out of one tire so far before wife called me for supper. After supper I will get it all out of one and then the other. Water weighs 8 pounds to a gallon I think. I'm bound and determined to get below 2500. Once I get all the water out I should get there easy.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 7:05pm |
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Weights hung from the "belly" have their place, but in general the only time I ever use weights like that is when I'm full up in the rear and am running another class 500 lbs or more higher. In that case, nothing goes on the front, it all goes underneath and most of the time it works out just fine. Hanging 100 lbs under the belly (mid-way on the frame length) has the same effect as 50 lbs on the front, provided the belly weight rack is truly located half-way from the center of the rear wheel to wherever the front weights are hanging.
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 8:20pm |
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I ended up getting 6 gallons of water out of one tire. At 8.3 pounds per gallon 6 Gallons weighs 49.8 pounds. May as well say 50. Tomorrow is get all the water out of the other tire. This should put me well below my goal of 2500.
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 10:22am |
OK. Now after getting 15 Gallons of water out of the rear tires the scale weight yesterday of 2520 is 125 pounds less. New bare bones with driver is 2395. Lets just call it 2400 pounds. Looking now to place 100 pounds where it will do the most good pulling in 2500 class. 50 pounds of water back into each rear tire.? or Sit on 4 full bags of #8 lead shot. Paul B hangs 200 pounds ahead of the front tire when pulling in 2500 Maybe 100 way up front to help me keep the front low. Watch Paul's videos. His CA front does come up close to or at the end of a pull. While weighing yesterday I got a front weight and a rear weight Front was 840 rear was 1700. Since the 125 pounds of water came off the rear, the rear weight is reduced to 1575 or thereabouts. Front weight is something in the neighborhood of 1/2 the rear weight. Heavy enough to not lift easy? What do you think. Weighing the front and rear separate and adding those weights together gets you pretty close to the total weight. 2540 added together. 2520 by its self. old numbers Looks like good weather for this next weekend pull in Shreveport.
Edited by Ken in Texas - 24 Oct 2018 at 6:17pm
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WF owner
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Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 1:51pm |
To answer your question about weight, I, personally, would not put water back in the tires. I would prefer moveable weight. If you area is anything like ours, track conditions vary. If you have a hard track with a lot of bite, you may need weight in the front. On a soft track, you may want the weight on the back. I would prefer two 50 lb. weights.
Edited by WF owner - 24 Oct 2018 at 1:58pm
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I made this 1" square tubing frame to mount these 35# weights from a cub zero turn mower and can mount 1 to 4 at a time close or extended depending on track conditions to pull 3000# to 3700# classes along with engine side weights under the belly or suitcase weights 40# and 70#.
