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BrianC,Ont 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Belleville Ont
Points: 903
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 Topic: WD Versus D15 II
Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 9:25am |
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Why do the Wd/WD45 pull better than the D15. I pulled a stock WD for the first time last Sunday in the 4500lb class and it went down the track nice and powered out with the fronts getting light. That is with the stock drawbar sticking way out. Now we have been pulling a D15 series II for years with 14.6/26, and now has 13.6/38 on it and it will always spin out. The drawbar is 18" high and 18" from axle centerline. Should I lenghten the drawbar and try it.
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35WC on steel, B with belly mower, D17 puller, D15 Series II puller, D15 Series II with loader, 608 Lawn Tractor
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20582
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 10:23pm |
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Comparing a stock 33 HP WD to a 46 HP D-15 S2 isn't hardly fair. Wouldn't you expect the higher HP tractor to maybe spin it out when the other one chokes?? And then there's the matter of gear ratios. You don't say what gear the D-15 is in, but it surely has a slower LOW gear than any WD. There's possibly a difference in how sharp one pair of tires is over the other pair............... In short, yes, a longer drawbar should in theory help lift front wheels off the ground easier. But don't take that to mean that a drawbar 6 feet long with 1,000 lbs of extra weight on the nose automatically makes you the WINNER every time you hook to the sled.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 4765
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 5:41am |
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Pulling is an exercise loaded with variables. What can work on on track on any given day may have you at the back of the pack at another track on another day. Even doing the same thing every time at the same track will not help if the weather conditions are drastically different. A consistent winner at a tractor pull studies all the conditions and make changes that the steering wheel holders never notice.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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BrianC,Ont
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Belleville Ont
Points: 903
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Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 10:20pm |
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I should have been more specific. I have been trying to get the D 15 to transfer weight for a few years without much luck. I hook for the first time with the WD on a stock drawbar and and pull within 4 ft of the D15 in the 4500lb class. I have tried different drawbar lengths on the D15. Currently my height is 20 in, and 18in from CL of rear axle, and pulling from the snap coupler. My dad won a couple of times with it in the 3500 lb class. So i guess my ? is are the W series tractors better pullers than the D series.
Thanks Brian
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35WC on steel, B with belly mower, D17 puller, D15 Series II puller, D15 Series II with loader, 608 Lawn Tractor
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DrAllis
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Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 7:16am |
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Each rear tires ability to grip the ground is called traction. A Firestone F-151 may very well have more grip than a Goodyear DynaTorque tire. The actual bar/lug wear profile may make one tire grip better than the other. Tire pressure plays a very important role in traction. Just because 10 psi works well with one tire doesn't mean 7 psi might work even better on another brand. Next time you are at a scales, weigh the front wheels only between the two tractors and you may answer your own question. If the D-15 is a WIDE FRONT axle, it probably weighs more than an old WD tricycle on the front end.
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4672
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Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 12:23pm |
Another factor is the WD has 28" tires vs. 26" for the D-15. Higher tires put more footprint on the ground, which also equals more traction. The WD has a lighter shipping weight, so probably more moveable weight. If the D-15 is front heavy, that would also make a difference.
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8300
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Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 8:08pm |
I rarely see any D15s pulling around here. Mostly WC's. WD's. Sounds like the longer drawbar might help on the D15? As mentioned so many things are different. On my tractors I try to minimize the changes, (probably not the right thing to do?) or only change one thing at a time. I see track conditions as my biggest issue. These old Armstrong deep cleats did great in wet sticky clay power track. They spun out and left a black mark in the hard track I pulled on last week. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 7:13am |
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Tire footprint information: a 14.9 x 26 tire has MORE footprint than a 13.6 X 28 tire. This came right from the series 2 D-15 sales brochure. It was an effort to compare it to a WD45. Only problem with that was, many WD-45's in our area had 14.9 x 28's on them, which was more tire than the D-15's had. If the width remains the same, larger diameter will always have more footprint.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
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Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 9:21am |
i have always heard the short wide tires will float and spin out where a tall narrow tire will bite better even with same foot print or less. of course it all depends on the track but i will say i see alot more tall and narrow than short fat tires. and think all the work people go through to run 38s on a wc when its then geared too fast so they have to build more motor and put in underdrives or RC rear ends.
I run 16.9x34 on my UC because I did some math and 38's would be too fast. it also happens to be the largest footprint I can run in 5000 lbs and up Div2. someday when i have enough power we will see if they spin out or bite like the Farmall M's and Minnie U's i pull against running 38's.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 19 Oct 2018 at 9:23am
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 4:20am |
Short fat tires don't pull? The important thing is to have a tire that matches what you have for power. As you mention those with tall tires have to use a RC rear to slow them down because they don't have the power to turn even LOW gear. if the were to experiment a bit and find a shorter tire with the same foot print, they could probably do much better. just throwing together what you have or similar to what someone else has done will not always do what you think. Watch these short fat tires (in 2nd gear at 300 LBS) walk way past all the previous pullers when I was last to pull in the class. The flagger was standing at the start of my pull at the previous farthest distance. [TUBE]Gt6FyDApako[/TUBE] it took me awhile to find what works for me and I had to find a different place to pull as well. Here's my wife on the same CA at 2500 pounds in 3rd gear. Also this tractor is for sale as you see it without weigths as a “turn key winner”. We have yet to see anything at 2500 pounds that is naturally aspirated that will outpull this CA. If there is any 2500 pound tractor that can beat it, I want to see it and pull against it. We need more strong pullers in the light classes. [TUBE]xxEUbb1qNmo[/TUBE]
AS I mentioned above, there are so many variables in tractor pulling, that you MUST find a combination that works with what you have and know what changes to make when presented with slightly different conditions. Over the years I've heard it preached that the 18" from the axle is the best way to set up your drawbar. I can absolutely confirm this is not true in every instance. I can move my drawbars for 18" to about 30" back for the center of the axle and up and down as needed. The one key thing I believe is most important is finding a tire that gives you the speed needed to use the power that you have. If your tractor always chokes out at the end of a pull, you need shorter tires or a lower gear, and by contrast if you always spin out with full RPMs, you need a taller tire or a faster gear. If your local club only allows LOW gear Find another club.
Edited by PaulB - 25 Oct 2018 at 10:57am
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
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Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 8:25am |
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Paul, Im not any kind of an expert by a long shot and Im not advocating tall skinny tires but simply stating what i see out there. I agree that what works for someone doesnt work for all and its about finding the sweet spot for your tractor.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 4765
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Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 11:28am |
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After a half century of pulling and so may wins and point champions, I’ve lost count and don’t even bring home the trophies any more. I’ve learned that not doing what everyone else does can many times let you walk right passed where they stopped. The more varables you have control over, the easier it is to adapt to changing conditions. Like with Drawbar length, those that only believe that you must run as short as possible have tunnel vision, you have to do what works for the situation.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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