6080 Engine and pump timing - 180 off?

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   Hey all,

Long story short, injector pump quit on my 1983 6080 due to flex ring. I lined up the timing marks on the pump and was at 21 degrees BTDC turning the engine over by hand the correct direction.  Always started hard so maybe i can get it closer to 18 when i'm done. Pulled the pump and its at a shop now to be rebuilt.  I've read all the posts on timing and I have the shop manual and i cant figure out a few things.  How exactly do i make sure I am not 180 degrees off?  I read one post where he turned it a couple full revolutions to make sure it was correct but this doesnt explain anything.  Right now its a coin flip as to whether I have it right or not.  I dont want to install the pump back on and then have to completely redo the job because i'm 180 off.  For fine tune timing, it is adjusted based on the small amount of rotation you can make on the pump with the housing nuts loosened, right?  What if i need to adjust more than i can get with just the play in the pump housing?

Lost a tonnn of hay that was down so I really want to get old Allis back up and running and see if i can redeem the rest of first crop.  Thanks a lot.  If theres some additional info on it you think may be useful i'm all ears. Appreciate it!

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AC6080MAINE Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 22 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 60	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC6080MAINE Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 6080 Engine and pump timing - 180 off? Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 1:48pm
	Hey all, Long story short, injector pump quit on my 1983 6080 due to flex ring. I lined up the timing marks on the pump and was at 21 degrees BTDC turning the engine over by hand the correct direction. Always started hard so maybe i can get it closer to 18 when i'm done. Pulled the pump and its at a shop now to be rebuilt. I've read all the posts on timing and I have the shop manual and i cant figure out a few things. How exactly do i make sure I am not 180 degrees off? I read one post where he turned it a couple full revolutions to make sure it was correct but this doesnt explain anything. Right now its a coin flip as to whether I have it right or not. I dont want to install the pump back on and then have to completely redo the job because i'm 180 off. For fine tune timing, it is adjusted based on the small amount of rotation you can make on the pump with the housing nuts loosened, right? What if i need to adjust more than i can get with just the play in the pump housing? Lost a tonnn of hay that was down so I really want to get old Allis back up and running and see if i can redeem the rest of first crop. Thanks a lot. If theres some additional info on it you think may be useful i'm all ears. Appreciate it!

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DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20494	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 3:05pm
	If you took it off with the pump marks lined up and you didn't turn the engine at all, it will be just fine with the pump marks lined up again.

AC6080MAINE Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 22 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 60	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC6080MAINE Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 3:23pm
	So what you are saying is the gearing for the pump is such that the timing marks ONLY align on the compression stroke? Not the exhaust stroke? So as long as you pull the pump off with the marks aligned and don't crank the engine, you are definitely on the compression stroke? I guess that would make sense as you wouldn't pulse fuel in on the exhaust stroke.

AllisFreak MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1541	Post Options Post Reply Quote AllisFreak MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 7:11pm
	I don't think you can be 180 off on a 6060. I believe the pump turns 1/2 speed on the 433T's? I could be wrong.
	'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2

AllisFreak MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1541	Post Options Post Reply Quote AllisFreak MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 7:13pm
	If you get the timing gears in the right slots then you should be able to fine tune with just the adjustment on the pump mounting bolts.
	'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2

DougG Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8106	Post Options Post Reply Quote DougG Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 7:14pm
	Your fine with what you have done,, the turn the engine over 2 rounds IS AFTER you have installed the pump for gear backlash etc,, that's where the adjustment comes in on the pump mounting bolt fine tuning,,, I know what you are thinking about the 21 degrees to 18 degrees on pump timing,,, it wont happen, theres that much play in all the gears,, at least this was my experience, thought I found a timing problem ,, nope Edited by DougG - 12 Jun 2018 at 7:15pm

AC6080MAINE Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 22 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 60	Post Options Post Reply Quote AC6080MAINE Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 7:28pm
	Okay i feel a lot better now. Thank you guys for all the clarification. Pulling that pump wasn't as much fun as i was hoping so it will sit alright with me if i only get to do it once. Doug are you saying i should just leave the timing alone instead of trying to get it closer to 18*? I didn't feel any slop throughout the gears.

MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 10:16pm
	I would try 18, may not help but worth a try. MACK

SteveM C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8239	Post Options Post Reply Quote SteveM C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 8:38am
	After installed,I'd back it up half turn then back fwd to address gear play checking timing. Maybe your rebuilt pump will just start better anyway.

DougG Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8106	Post Options Post Reply Quote DougG Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 6:44pm
	Yup that's my experience with a few of them,,