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blazen orange 
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Location: cassville wi
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 Topic: 301 gas options
Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 9:57am |
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Currently I have a 190xt gas and I can't quite keep up with the 4020 class in our area 7500 to 9500 lbs. I don't always get last but am generally 10 to 20 feet behind. I am mostly stock other than I run up to 3000 rpm never over. I was wondering if I could bore the sleeves to 4 inch and use pistons from a wd 45,and some cam and carb work if that would get me more in line with them. Cubic inch wise I know it won't but if I can get to 100 hp plus I should be good. Any thoughts would be great.
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Shawn PA
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Hickory PA
Points: 164
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 11:57am |
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Put a diesel engine in it
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blazen orange
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 12:07pm |
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Pretty sure a non turbo 301 diesel would be enough and I still want to stick with the gas to be different.
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 1:25pm |
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301 gas engine has more potential than a 301 no-turbo engine !! Your plan of a 4 inch bore only nets you 320 cubes.....not hardly worth the time and effort and WD-45 pistons won't fit on your 301 piston pins anyway. A much larger carburetor (7700 Deere combine??) and change of the intake manifold throat to attach the carb to would be the easiest and most bang-for-the-buck. Use racing fuel 110 octane and advance ignition timing up to and no more than 30 degrees BTDC. I've done two of those engines at 4 1/2" bore which turns into 405 cubes.
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O.P.S. Heads
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Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Location: Iowa
Points: 574
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 1:28pm |
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Installed diesel pistons. Same bore as your existing sleeves. Same wrist pin as your existing rods. Machine the piston bowls to lower the compression ratio to whatever you want - say 12:1 ratio. Might as well cut valve reliefs while you are machining the bowls. Get a hotter ignition system. Port and polish cylinder head. Faster ratio rocker arms. Maybe find a larger carburetor. That will increase the power dramatically at a low cost with relatively low effort.
Edited by O.P.S. Heads - 21 Jul 2016 at 1:32pm
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Shawn PA
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Location: Hickory PA
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 1:55pm |
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I didn't know you was running a non turbo class
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blazen orange
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Location: cassville wi
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 2:17pm |
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Thanks for the ideas. I wasn't sure if the wrist pins were the same size or not but definitely need to increase air flow and fuel. I was hoping to stay on pump has though.
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Bob C IL
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Joined: 25 Sep 2009
Location: Paris IL
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 3:04pm |
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Guy in effingham could probably cut you a cam if you need it.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 4:36pm |
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Why would you want to stay on "pump gas" ?? Are you thinking you can still farm with this engine after you install custom pistons and bore the sleeves?? and maybe change the camshaft ?? or whatever else you do to it. You can swap manifolds with a big carb installed and still farm with it, by swapping back to the OEM parts. My suggestion of better fuel was so you could advance the timing 5 degrees, nothing else. Timing could be set back for farming. Electronic ignition is a great idea and also works for the farm.
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Bob C IL
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Location: Paris IL
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 4:48pm |
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My next project is a 301 on alcohol and turbo. Expect some serious setbacks so hordin parts now.
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DougG
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 5:03pm |
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I aplaude you for wanting to stick with the gas engine
, I'm really thinking of doing this too as it would really make the other guys try to figure out how a gasser could beat them !
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blazen orange
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 6:13pm |
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I don't need to stay on pump gas cause it's becoming my play thing toy and was only hoping to but with that kind of compression it's obvious I would have to. Is aviation gas about that octain? I'm not sure. I realize it's going to require machine work but my wallet only goes so far and I'm just gathering ideas and thoughts. I also was checking into and have talked to the guy from c5 performance about there new ignition system and this sounds real promising as well.
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 7:21pm |
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Install gasoline injectors and a turbo. Those two things, I would think, would do lots. Unless turbo is not allowed. I watched a 656 gas with turbo do pretty good last Saturday at LeRoy MN. There was a 560 gas with turbo too.
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DougG
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Location: Mo
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 7:24pm |
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Mack is on here and runs a bad ass XT gasser. ,,,, hopefully he will give some advise
Edited by DougG - 21 Jul 2016 at 7:24pm
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blazen orange
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 7:29pm |
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I've already thought about going to a turbo but that limits where I can pull. There is a 560 and a m around here that are turbo and they run real well also.
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NA G301
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Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Location: cen ON
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Posted: 21 Jul 2016 at 9:31pm |
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We are running a 190xt gas small axel 1966 in 5500 lb na class 8 mph 30% over 3000 max rpm .falowed advice of o p s used late model 7000 diesel Pistons so post to be 15.1 to 1 cut valve releaf and opened up boles lots of com running c12 and purrs lick kitten .1 7/8 carb muffy rockers cleaned up head msd ignition a lot off cheap fun . We need more cid to catch rd560 but we aren't that fare behind
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KevinON
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Location: Schomberg, ON
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Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 10:06am |
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The above tractor does run nice!!
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 9:02pm |
Have you considered using E85? It works great with high compression ratios, as it is equal to 105 octane gas (it's way cheaper that racing gas) and places like our pulling club consider it to be "pump gas". The carburetor does need much richer jetting to work right, along with a higher temperature thermostat and a heat shield around the manifold to prevent icing. After working with it for a few years, I've had very good results. The chilling effect it has on the manifold gets much more Air/Fuel mixture into the cylinder on the non turbo tractor than you'd get with racing gas. I run both our pulling tractors on it. One CA has a turbo and the other doesn't. I'd challenge anything that weighs 2500 pounds or less to come pull against us
and see how we do.
I've just gotten done with getting a Holley (like used on a 190) to work with the E85 on the non turbo CA and it is pulling better than it did with the big M/S.
This video is both tractors running the 3000 pound class. The non turbo tractor runs 2nd gear and the turbo tractor is in 3rd.
[TUBE]http://youtu.be/73L8j9b4jdE[/TUBE]
Edited by PaulB - 22 Jul 2016 at 9:10pm
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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blazen orange
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Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 12:03pm |
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I have thought about e85 and a turbo setup. But that limits what class I can pull in. Although it's not completely ruled out yet.The ideas so far have given me lots to think about for my winter build.
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NA G301
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Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 6:09pm |
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NA G301
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Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 7:05pm |
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okay whats my next step , will a cam help at 3000 rpm and still lug and pull down or save my money and go to 400 cid. Tractor is running very well and we are starting to get a feel fore it.Have dun all the things talked about by ops and Dr ,ran 2nd 3rd place last 2 times out looking fore ideas the case tractor that beet us on saturday only has 500 cubs more then the 301,we may just see how close we can get and plan for the next motor
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DrAllis
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Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 8:00pm |
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It appears that they are few "rules" for this class. Considering what you've done thus far, if it was mine, I'd built a new intake manifold and have TWO carbs with the air inlets opposite of each other and install engine side covers to cover the secret weapon. How do you think you can compete against 800 cubic inches with 301 cubes?? Might be able to shift up one gear but even in the same gear the RPM's should be much greater.
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NA G301
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Posted: 28 Jul 2016 at 9:07pm |
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Rules are not that bad in this class 8mph seed limit has reely helped .We pull on a wide range of tracks the big case is at disavantage on a poor track. He is a good competiter and sum times i beet him .The natpa chart gives the case 1950 rpm@ 30% over or 1.5 mill cub feet if we go to 400 cid @3000 rpm we get 1.2 and with a bigger rpm range we hope to give him a good run. Back to my question on cam,s is there more power to be had or will i just move the torque cure around
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