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Allis 8050 engine build |
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NEVER green
Orange Level Access Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Location: MN. Points: 6575 |
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On the 8000 series they lowered the compression and injectors are different, adding to different starting character.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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I agree completely! |
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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Kevin in WA
Orange Level Access Joined: 08 Feb 2010 Location: Lynden, WA Points: 607 |
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What they should have done is use the A series inline on all 426 engines from 1973 on, as well as a number of other engine updates we have all talked about before.
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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One reason they went to the ambac maybe that they would start better and smoke less, but main reason would more than likey be COST! That would be my thinking.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19596 |
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OK then. I guess they should have stayed with DM-4's instead of switching to AmBach.
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Well i can tell ya for a fact that our 220 that had a DM4631 from a 7080 that was rebuilt with a brand new engine would start 100% better than the new engine in our 8030 with a rebuilt pump and engine. New injectors in both, New everything. And yes throttle full forward in the 8030. This ambac was also rebuilt by Fair Valley Performance in Sauk city Wisconsin.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19596 |
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And you see, there's always someone who disagrees. Once again, the reason A-C went to AmBach was to reduce smoke and start better when cold. That's a fact. Comparing engines that have differing hours of use on them isn't fair for starting ease. Also, the AmBach pump REQUIRES the hand throttle be wide open for the best starting and immediately cut back upon fire-up. Many Operators don't do that.
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Dave7060
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2009 Points: 172 |
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I have to disagree there. Both my 7060 and 7580 will out start my 8050. 7060 pump was done last winter (leak, nothing else wrong with it but overhauled the whole pump anyway) and the pump and injectors were done on my 8050 two years ago because it was (and still is) a gutless wonder at low RPM. So both pumps are good. My IH Hydro 70 as a Ambac 100 pump and it's a poor starter also, probably the worst I own. I've been thinking about either putting an inline pump on the 8050 or even going back to a Roosa Master DM4 pump if I could do it cheap because honestly I feel the switch to the Bosch 100 pump was a downgrade. |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19596 |
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Any 8000 series (Am-Bach)starts better than any 7000 series (DM-4), and that is pretty much due to the injection pump. An IH starts better yet because it's 17 to 1 compression instead of 16 to 1 compression.
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Jordan(OH)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Celina, OH Points: 1545 |
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And why does the IH start good but AC doesn't? |
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4786 |
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The biggest problem with the M100 pumps is all the junk "remans" out there.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8588 |
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I guess I would have to call myself a believer in the in line pump being better than an ambac 100, even though I have not had any first hand experience to back it up : just reading testimonials. However, I now have my 8070 getting worked on by a guy who bleeds IH red, and when I told him about my thoughts of putting an in line on it, he asked me why did the ambac 100 work good on the IH's if it doesn't work good on allis's? I really didn't know how to answer that. Any one have any thoughts on this? Darrel
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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I've had a few little problems here and there with it also, It would just smoke going down the field. Couldn't think why. Well I got to thinking finally that maybe it was timing. When I put it together I set it at the original timing, 21*. well that was a bad idea. I talked with Ed a little bit about it and he recommended that I have it around 28-32* timing like a deere. So I se it up to 30* timing and now it just has a light haze while working it. Next is cooling, I put new thermostats in it from agco, well they do not have enough coolant flow to keep it cool. I found a couple places to get stats like the old one. so that's what I'll be doing.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Yeah I've put about 32 hours on the engine so far. The pump off a 516 is actually a P-series bosch. It is bigger than the little A-pump. To fit a P-pump on the 426 you need to, looking from the front, cut off the lower right mounting ear so it clears the engine block. I have don't this on one of my other engines for mockup.
Ok lets look at the Ambac pump at a wear standpoint. First the ambac turns 1 to 1 with crank speed, now the A-pump turns half cran speed. So it should wear out half as fast. Now Fuel plunger, Ambac has one, and A-pump has 6. So really the Ambac wears out 6 times as fast. But most of the wear items all depend on how you change oil and filters. Keeping clean oil and fuel helps a lot. Now Starting, all I can say about that is that it starts better than the other two 8000's we have with the ambac pumps. Now Governor, I never knew how "lazy" the governor on the ambac was until I got this tractor together. All I can say is holy ! This tractor is some much more responsive in the field compared to the other two. |
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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GM Guy
Orange Level Joined: 31 Jul 2012 Location: NW KS / S.C. ID Points: 1973 |
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So, did you get it in the field yet? :)
Also, seeing how we have combines, how much would need to be done to a N7 Gleaner pump (Bosch inline, I assume an A Pump like all these) set at 270 HP @ 2100 off a 516 Allis engine? Also, my dad and I have discussed this a few times: Why does the Bosch distributor pump "suck"? Dad's arguement is some of our older equipment (2150 Oliver, etc) with a distributor type Bosch pump seem to work just fine and last a long time as well, so he doesn't believe it when I say "Well the guys on the Allis forum said they aren't that good". What is different about the pump on the 8K series tractors and 3 series combines that makes them not good? |
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help. |
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Well guys I finally got a 8070 air cleaner! Put it on and no more air filter light on the dash! lol
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19596 |
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A turbocharger puts a lot of extra heat into the engine oil. That oil cooler is there to help counteract that extra heat. It was put there for a reason.
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acd21man
Orange Level Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Location: tn Points: 831 |
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^^ ya i looked on the 21 today and no room. would it hurt to remove the cooler.?
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8035 |
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Bosch A won't clear the oil cooler.Pullers remove cooler.
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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That should be a 3500 engine. Then im not sure if the A-pump will clear the oil cooler on the side. you wouls have to do some measuring. Also then you couldn't use the adapter from Kcgrain either seeing the the stock 220 pump ont mounts with 3 holes. You would need to take the front plate off the engine and have it bored and drilled for the A-pump.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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acd21man
Orange Level Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Location: tn Points: 831 |
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its a 69 model factory motor i cant remember the series on them
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Which engine series do you have? 3500?3500mk2 or 670? Because if its just a 3500 that came in the 220, I dont know if the pump would clear the oil cooler. See our 220 has a 670 from a combine in it.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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acd21man
Orange Level Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Location: tn Points: 831 |
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well i wana still work it and maybe play a little with it so the 240 would be fine with me.
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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No that would work fine for a stockish tractor. 4440 pumps have 9
5mm plungers with the timing retard notches. So you couldn't get much over 240-260hp. |
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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acd21man
Orange Level Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Location: tn Points: 831 |
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so would i go wrong tryn to put the 4440 pump on it ?
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Easiest is to buy the adapter from Kcgrain on here. Pretty easy thatway. If you have the newer Dm roosamaster pump like on the 7000 series. What engine do you have in it? The old 426 that came in the 220?
Edited by peterson - 28 Apr 2015 at 9:09pm |
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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acd21man
Orange Level Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Location: tn Points: 831 |
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ok so the jd pump is on the 220? ok what did u have to do to swap. got a junk 466 outa a 4440 with pump and all on it. how easy is it to make run?
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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No the pump on the 185 is off a uni power unit 426 engine. Got it cheap so I used it. The Deere A-pump is on our 220. Works great but I wish it didn't have the timing retard notches in the plungers in the pump. And no, haven't had any problems with the 185. It has a 649 engine in it from the factory, so its the latest and greatest 301.
Edited by peterson - 28 Apr 2015 at 9:00pm |
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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acd21man
Orange Level Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Location: tn Points: 831 |
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wow i like it lol any probs.. im sure there could be. some guys down the road have a 180 with a turbo on it runs pretty good. so is that a jd pump on it? iv read some much on this post thought i seen somthing bout a jd pump on somthing i was readin got a d21 needs some help wana do something like this
Edited by acd21man - 28 Apr 2015 at 8:53pm |
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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Peterson
Orange Level Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Location: Westboro, Wi Points: 862 |
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Yeah but that was the last time it was dynoed, with the stock pump turned up with 7080 tips and a hx35. It has a Dm4629 on it now turned up with 7080 tips and a holset he351. Few more horsepower than before. :-)
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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