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G creeper gear? |
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killer ac
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Nov 2009 Points: 42 |
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Posted: 18 Jan 2010 at 1:00pm |
Was a creeper standard or an option?
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22978 |
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That's a 50-50 draw....The one I just gave away had it although unless you tore the front off I couldn't tell. If you pull the gearshift cover off see if there's a sliderail/fork going 'outside' the gearbox.Mine did and it had the creeper.Still regret giving it and all the implements away...sigh....
Jay
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Creek Jenkins
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Northern Minn Points: 812 |
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They talk about it in the manuals as the "special" low gear, but I think most of them had it. Not sure though. Joe would know for sure.
cheers,
Creek
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Dusty MI
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5058 |
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If you can't get your G to go into the special low/creeper gear. Put the tractor in neutral. Take the seat off and pull the shift lever out, then look down into the transmission. If you see a third shifting gate that out of line with the other two. Take a large screw driver and line it up with the other two.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Interesting......I have a repro AC manual for my G. On p8 it states: "Special low to the extreme right and down, turning shift handle slightly while shifting." And the tranny and shifter diagrams both show the creeper gear/shifting fork. Of course, this manual didn't come with my tractor, so I will have to do some exploration. It'd be neat if I find the G has the "special low" gear.
Does this gear show up on the shift diagram? Mine doesn't show it. Edited by Dave(inMA) - 19 Jan 2010 at 6:03am |
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Butch(OH)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lucerne Ohio Points: 3835 |
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I dont own a G or know anything much about them but every time I read about creeper gears I am reminded that my friend Bill Long blew the "special G" market to smithereens several years ago when he posted here that "they all have creeper gears, all ya have to do is remove the shifter and align the forks" Glad I didn't have a special creeper gear G for sale when ya did that Bill!! , LOL.
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Are Dusty's "shifting gate" and Butch's "fork" the same thing? Also, I'm not sure what Dusty means when he says "pull the shift lever out and look down into the transmission". I haven't done this with my G to see (too dang chilly right now) but I know with my other tractors that I can't see much through the shift lever opening in the tranny cover! Need a little education here!! Thanks.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Dick L
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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Eldon (WA)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Spokane, WA Points: 7765 |
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Dave the shift diagram on the G was a decal on the top of the battery box. Since the tranny casting is the same as the B and C, it will never show the other gear. As for them being standard, I've bought a couple of G's without the creeper gear, but they had one within an hour after I got it home :-)
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Dick and Eldon - thanks! I will investigate my G soon. If I don't have the "special gear" I'll be looking for guidance on adding it.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Dusty MI
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5058 |
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To me the fork is the part that goes in the gear collar and moves the gear. The gate is the part that the ball on the end of shifting leaver.
I've heard of a few Gs that don't have the Special Low gears in them. But I believe that most do, they just need to have the gate lined up. The gate slide past/beyond neutral. Dusty I meant to say, the gate is the part that the ball on the end of the shift lever goes into.
Edited by Dusty MI - 20 Jan 2010 at 9:19am |
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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JoeM(GA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4700 |
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the shifter rail looks like this, if the rail has been forced too far forward, or the shifter ball is worn it will end up too far forward for the shifter to catch. As stated above, pull the shift lever, reach forward with a screwdriver, catch the notch and pry it back.
The first picture is what you will see with it pried back, the second shot is just a better idea of what you're fishing for |
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Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Joe and Dusty - thanks a ton. A fellow oughta be able to follow this now! Stay tuned - will check my G tomorrow.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Brad MI
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arcadia MI Points: 339 |
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I own 9 G's and they all have the creeper gear. I can't say I've ever seen one without it.
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Eldon (WA)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Spokane, WA Points: 7765 |
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I wonder if they weren't advertised with a "special creeper gear" - to differentiate between the B and C - and it was interpreted as a "special order creeper gear" by customers, vendors and authors......
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Eldon, that could be the case, though the Operator's Manual describes it as the "special gear" on p8.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Butch(OH)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lucerne Ohio Points: 3835 |
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May be? Sure as heck fooled the "community" for a long time. I remember going to a show 10 years ago and they had the Gs all lined up for some reason and a guy had a big sign made up for his G because it had the "creeper gear" like it was one of 3 that ever had it or something,, LOL/
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bobsouthernky
Bronze Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: corbin,ky Points: 25 |
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Eldon I am new to allis. So I have a question. You stated that the transmission casting for the G and B was the same. Does that mean that I can mount the motor on the back of the B and in will be a G, or are all the gears different?
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Dusty MI
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5058 |
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I'm in Florida and my manuals are home in Michigan so I can't quote them but one of them says something about the Optional Special Low.
The B, C, and G all have the same transmission and gears. When I first got my G it had a chipped tooth on one of the gears. I went to a salvage yard to see if the had the gear I needed. The told me where the bins for the G were and to go look. The bins were well marked and the bin for that gear for the G was empty. I looked in a bin for the B or C and there was the gear I needed. It's in my G now. In the B & C transmissions, there's a shaft in the top corner. This shaft is connected by gears to the very front of the transmission. This shaft feeds the hydraulic and PTO, in the B & C. In the G this same shaft is geared to the engine from the back of the transmission and drives the transmission in the G from the front, just like the B & C. Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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I checked my G this afternoon. I could not get the shift lever to do the "far right and back" move into the creeper gear. I could shift into all the other gears. So I don't know whether my G doesn't have the creeper gear or needs some tranny work. I'm looking forward to getting the shop to the point where I can actually work on tractors in it! Then it'll be time for some further investigation.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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JoeM(GA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4700 |
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Dave! far right and forward
Grab the shifter in neutral with your hand "roll" your wrist (don't turn your hand)to the right and then forward. It's almost an un-natural movement until you've done it a few times, the shifter will be a good bit lower than in the other gears. If your shifter is really worn you'll be low enough to leave skin on the battery box! in low low |
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Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Well, Joe, "forward" vs. "backward" - that might explain why I was having trouble! Will give it another try tomorrow.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Herb(GA)
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: United States Points: 1039 |
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killer ac; please note that the manual states that this creeper low is for speed control only. It is NOT for power because this special gearing is not adequately supported for power. Decades ago a friends boys did a "been there done that". Herb
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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The good news is that my G indeed has a creeper gear. Now that I have gotten straight where to find it, I am also recalling a time when I shifted into what I thought was 1st gear and was astounded at the slow speed. I'm now realizing that the tranny must have been in creeper gear. Herb, your comment is interesting - can you point out where in the manual this appears? Didn't see it when I found the paragraph on p8 mentioning the "special gear." Thanks! |
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Bill Long
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bel Air, MD Points: 4556 |
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It does my heart good to hear all the comments supporting the fact that ALL G TRACTORS came out with the "Creeper Gear". That was made for cultivation of very special crops that needed a very slow speed for extreme close cultivation. We even had the "Creeper Gear Fork" slip out of place when they were new.Herb, I remember giving you and others demonstrations on an open G transmission case in the GOTO in New York.
Joe, thanks for the outstanding pictures showing exactly how the "special low gear" fits in the gear pattern.
Also, the new tractors had a decal on the top of the battery box showing the "special low gear". Since most of the battery box lids have long since rusted these decals have been lost. Many look at the raised B-C transmission shift pattern and feel it is correct. I used to tell customers to rotate your wrist hard right to pick it up
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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1953 ib alabama
Bronze Level Joined: 18 Oct 2009 Location: alabama Points: 12 |
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being the owner of 12 gs and around these tractors all my life I always thought that the Gs all had the special low gear. At the G homecoming show in Gadsden I came across a copy of the factory parts book and reading in this book under the page that breaks the transmission down in to the parts and numbers part # 39 states that if the tractor did not have the special low gear that this spacer had to go where the gear would have been. This makes me think from this that some of the tractors did not have the low gear,also I have worked on some of these transmissions that have piece of medal welded across the gate in the shifting selector . A while back some one on here was looking for a head for A D15 diesel , I found a whole tractor for sale or will part out. If need to know more email me at geraldwhiteside@att.net
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JoeM(GA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4700 |
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I've got the same shop manual as Gerald, and I remember seeing an old sales book long ago that showed it as an option, but I really think that after they had had the G out for a short time and people worked it, they all came back for the lower gear & I would think dealers began to always order them that way, making it "standard equipment"
Who knows! but it beats hearing about politics!!!! |
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Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Interesting flood of great details about this aspect of the G! This has been fun and very informative.
Joe, is that an AC shop manual? Just for the G I'd love to find a copy.....
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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JoeM(GA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4700 |
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Dave, yes it is, shoot me an email and I'll send you a link to some manuals I've scanned
murphy06@bellsouth.net |
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Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
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PennsylvaniaNewt
Silver Level Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Location: SE Pennsylvania Points: 61 |
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So does this mean the B and C tractors can be geared lower just like the G? I had a C and it had plenty of power but was geared to high for careful brush hogging.
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