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HD6 Advice

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Joined: 18 Feb 2016
Location: Texas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HD6 Advice
    Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:10am
I bought a property and it included an HD6 tractor.  Upon closer inspection, there is a rod sticking through the engine block.

1.  Is this tractor worth fixing?
2. What is the right approach to fixing this....for example, get a short block, send the engine out for a complete rebuild, buy a new engine, etc.
3.  What other problems might this tractor have that I should inspect before dumping $$$ into it?
4.  What year is this tractor?










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CAL(KS) View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:26am
your intentions for repairing the tractor should have a bearing on how and if you decide to fix it.  if your plan is to keep it and use then maby yes.  if you plan to fix and sell your unlikely to make your money back.  depends on your skill, whether you send out for repair and your budget.

short blocks are not available. current engine could be fixed but probably cost prohibitive depending on other internal damage and lanova engine parts are getting hard to come by.  swapping in a good known engine is probably the most cost effective route but a gamble since you cant run the machine to test other functions.  likely it was functioning until it threw a rod but how long has it been sitting is anyones guess.  track pads dont look very worn but that isnt a good indication of pin and bushing/sprocket wear.  If the undercarriage is good, then possibly a good candidate to fix.

we need the serial # to know for sure what year but with lanova engine it could be 1955-1962


also you may receive more info posted in construction equipment forum

and yes.  if it was on my property i would try to fix it, but that is not an option for everyone.



Edited by CAL(KS) - 18 Feb 2016 at 10:44am
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:27am
Looks like a pretty handy sized crawler and seems like it hasn't sat too long.I don't know much about those crawlers and parts availability, but If it was mine, I think I would try to fix it.
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Joined: 18 Feb 2016
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:39am
I plan to use it.   But if the best answer is to sell it for scrap and buy something else, I can go that route too.

I have no idea how long it has been sitting like this.

Here is an image of the plate on the block.  It is difficult to read and I'm 2000 miles away right now so I can't get a better image


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Joined: 18 Feb 2016
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 12:15pm
I also have the ability to fix this tractor myself, as long as I have the information necessary as is typically found in a shop manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 12:24pm
I wouldn't scrap it yet. See if you can find another machine with a good engine and bad under carriage. Well I guess you need to look at your undercarriage first to see if it has life left in it also.
I see what your saying about the air conditioned engine block! Yikes. Do you have a bigger machine to move this one somewhere to work on it?
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 18 Feb 2016 at 12:24pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 1:55pm
split I had several the crawler loader version of that. The later motors had a heaver bottom end than the earlier ones, but the later motors were a even swap. Looks like you will have to remove the brush cab, take the radiator shroud off, pull the radiator, and everything should slide out the front. We removed the motor and tranny together, separated them outside the dozer. It was easier to do that way. While you have them out make sure you adjust the transmission brake before you put everything back together. Its been about 6 years since I did the last one, memory is not good. The belly pan is not too heavy, a good floor jack would be a help. I think the belly pan bolts are fine threaded, kinda keep them separated. I still have some new OEM radiator hose for 1 in the shed.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by split split wrote:

 
Here is an image of the plate on the block.  It is difficult to read and I'm 2000 miles away right now so I can't get a better image

that is engine model and serial.  tractor serial is on dash on a plaque or on right rear clutch housing behind winch


Edited by CAL(KS) - 18 Feb 2016 at 2:10pm
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 3:35pm
Looks like a parts machine to me, undercarriage parts are getting harder to find for those and if yours are in good shape would prolly be the most valuable item.   Post your inquiry on the construction side of this forum and you will get additional help there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 3:38pm
Just viewing your HD6 photos, its overall condition, tracks, & blade doesn't look too bad. One bonus is it has a rear winch. That can be very handy item. Congrats on owning an AC dozer. You should fix it or part it out to others on this site. Please don't scrap it.

According to my AC Farm Equipment 1914-1985 Norm Swinford book, the early HD dozers had a GM engine. Began in 1939 with two cycle GM diesels. WWII delayed larger & smaller dozers, so the HD5 & HD19 began in 1946. HD6 were not built in this period.

Later in 1953, AC acquired Buda diesel engines. The 1956 HD6B had a Buda D344 (4cyl CR of 15.0-1 Lanova (energy cell combustion chamber, natural aspiration). It had a max dbr 49.96hp & max pull of 12636lbs.

In early 1960's, AC diesel engines were re-designed to direct injection, open chamber, a feature that provided easier starting and improved fuel economy. These were known as the Thousand Series and the AC 6000 engine was installed in the HD6B or HD6E. The AC 6000 engine was a 344cu in 4cyl CR of 16.25-1, natural aspiration. It's max engine 75hp, max dbr 52 hp, max pull 15,485lbs. HD6E had power steering, power brakes, raised seat, multi-disk oil clutch.

In 1964, AC Ag Crawlers got a turbo, lighter weight grill & bumpers and reduced track guard equipment. So, a HD6AG had a AC 7000, 344cu in, 4 cyl, CR 16.25-1, had max engine 90hp.

Althought the 344 cu in engines saw 3 different horsepower ratings, they all were turning the same 1800 rpms. All the HD6 dozers had a 5 forward, 1 reverse transmission.

 
 
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Lee Bradley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee Bradley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:26pm
We had a 1956 HD-6 with 4 forward and 2 reverse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:38pm
I have one picture of the dash, and I can see what looks like a plate, but its too blurry to read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:39pm
I have a bobcat that can lift the engine, but I doubt it can pull/push the HD6 from its present location.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by AC7060IL AC7060IL wrote:


In early 1960's, AC diesel engines were re-designed to direct injection, open chamber, a feature that provided easier starting and improved fuel economy. These were known as the Thousand Series and the AC 6000 engine was installed in the HD6B or HD6E. The AC 6000 engine was a 344cu in 4cyl CR of 16.25-1, natural aspiration. It's max engine 75hp, max dbr 52 hp, max pull 15,485lbs. HD6E had power steering, power brakes, raised seat, multi-disk oil clutch.

In 1964, AC Ag Crawlers got a turbo, lighter weight grill & bumpers and reduced track guard equipment. So, a HD6AG had a AC 7000, 344cu in, 4 cyl, CR 16.25-1, had max engine 90hp.

Perhaps we can't determine an exact year...yet, but from the pictures can we determine if this has a turbo or direct injection??
What is your best guess on the year?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 4:47pm
Here is a picture of the dash, perhaps this will provide additional info for those that are familiar with this HD6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 5:05pm
It's a 1955 year model no later than June of 1956. Place your bets now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Deppe/AC Salvag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 6:01pm
Have a couple of the described 7000 series engines, gov't surplus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Bill Deppe/AC Salvag Bill Deppe/AC Salvag wrote:

Have a couple of the described 7000 series engines, gov't surplus

As I have essentially no experience with this tractor, beyond taking a few pictures, I don't know anything about it, including the details of the engine, other than what is posted so far on this thread. 
So its not clear to me which engines, if any, might bolt in as a replacement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 8:22pm
Has to be an earlier one, has the push rod starter on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2016 at 10:11pm
The serial number is on the bottom aluminum tag on the dash, below the hand throttle lever.  ''IF YOU POST IT ANSWERS WILL COME"   It's visible in your picture, but not readable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 5:05am
Um!

Would that fan belt in the fuel pump photo be inside out?

Not sure  what that says if so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 6:38am
Split, I'd be checking into one of them engines that Bill Deppe/AC Salvage has and bring that thing back to life, Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 7:34am
Keep it find a government surplus 7000 series motor. Search the forum for posts about the swap. Send a PM to the people who have done the swap and you will find they are more than happy about the results Send me a PM and I can put you in contact with a person that has done the swap and has the HD344 motor he replaced for sale. The 7000 motor from a generator set have been on eBay for as little as $500. I found out about the surplus motors after I invested $3000 on a rebuild of my HD344 motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 7:45am
There are (3) of the government surplus 7000 motors for sale on eBay right now. Price from $1600 to $2750. The turbocharged 7000 motor makes the HD6 come alive with new power and a great turbo sound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 8:46am
Steering clutches might be stuck. 1 of mine did after I let it sit 2 years due to0 back and arm problems. Next time you are near it, post close up a picture of the sprocket teeth and the large front roller. Is the floor pan, the 1 that your feet rest on somewhere close by? The knob on the upper left of the dash is the fuel shutoff. The long lever leaning forward beside it is the clutch. When you pull it back does it snap good? It should take something like 35 lbs of force to make it snap back, going from bad memory here. If it is like mine it is a 24 volt system, looks like the top to the battery box is off, should be 2 12 volt batterys in it. I wish I could buy a property with 1 on it.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 9:54am
The hydraulic cylinders are not original AC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 10:34am
I figured this was a late 60's early 70's tractor based on its appearance.  Based on the comments so far it seems that this may be a 60 year old tractor.   This is concerning as the people that owned this property, and therefore the tractor, were not the type to maintain equipment.  My bet is they ran the thing without oil or with oil so old that the rod through the block was inevitable.  This would likely also mean that the upper end of the engine has also seen abuse.   Hence a new motor is likely the only answer.
But then this brings into doubt the condition of the rest of the tractor.  

What sort of transmission does this have?
Is it easy to check the fluid condition?

It may be a couple of months until I'm back there again, so I would like to come up with a plan of action so that once I'm  there I can determine how to proceed or not.

I do have someone going to the property next week.  I will have them take a few pictures of the dash.   If there are any other pictures that would help, please let me know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:02am
I suggest you see how much is left of the undercarriage. Some can be done by looking such as the bushing condition. A better assessment can be made with a track gauge, try to find one it is a hand held plate cutout and marked to show when held against wear surface of sprockets,idlers, and rollers how much is left. Also measures the rail height and will be marked showing when buildup or replacement is needed.   As I said before if the bottom is good you probably will be ahead selling those parts and haul the rest for scarp. Just my opinion, keep us posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote split Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:27am
Originally posted by B26240 B26240 wrote:

I suggest you see how much is left of the undercarriage. Some can be done by looking such as the bushing condition. A better assessment can be made with a track gauge, try to find one it is a hand held plate cutout and marked to show when held against wear surface of sprockets,idlers, and rollers how much is left. Also measures the rail height and will be marked showing when buildup or replacement is needed.   As I said before if the bottom is good you probably will be ahead selling those parts and haul the rest for scarp. Just my opinion, keep us posted.

I'm just not familiar enough with this tractor or the vocabulary you are using above to make this assessment.   If you can be more specific or if there are videos of these areas being examined or replaced, I would be better able to internalize what you are referring to as "undercarriage".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2016 at 11:37am
something else i noticed.  in 57' the engines were given a 6- prefix to the serial # which yours does not have so that coupled with the push rod starter indicates you most like have a 55-56 model.  

also the letter or letters following HD6__ -xxxx in tractor serial # will indicate which series, gauge of track (width), number of track links, and transmission type.

Im guessing this tractor to be a HD6A-xxxx  which would make it the 5 speed sliding gear transmission, 44 inch gauge and 33 links per side.

In my opinion the manual transmission dozers dont generally give to much trouble.   they dont have oil pumps to wear out, hoses to suck air, or filters to clog.
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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