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D21 & 9000 Plow ??
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JimWenigOH View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: NC Ohio
Points: 1198 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimWenigOH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D21 & 9000 Plow ??
    Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 7:03pm
I have a person with a D21 interested in a 9000x6 plow I have for sale. His D21 has 24.5-32 tires. He would like to know if he can plow with both rear tires on land with my 9000 Series 6 bottom semi-mount plow. I have a couple 9000 Series Plow brochures. One of them shows a D21 with 24.5-32's pulling a 7 bottom 9000 Series on land with 6 to 8 inches to spare. He does not want to pull a 7 bottom with his soil conditions. So the question is, can he plow with his tractor on land with my 6 bottom plow? Anyone done it or have photos? Thanks. Jim
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ILGLEANER View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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Points: 6448 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ILGLEANER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 8:00pm
Should be able to. We had a 6 bottom 9000. That we slide the hitch over and plowed on land with it. Wouldn't matter if it was a 6 or 7. It's all about the width at the first furrow. In my opinion .
      IG
Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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BradRisen View Drop Down
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Points: 265 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BradRisen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 9:40pm
Yes, it will work good , I used that set-up for several years with my D-21 until going all No-Till , I put a 1000 Lb wheel weight inside of each rear wheel + Fluid for the Tuff spots .
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AC7060IL View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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Points: 3575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 9:55pm
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 8667 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 10:21pm
IG said they moved theirs.That would be my only question whether or not you have everything needed to move it over. Did the onland hitch have extra/different bracing???? A book on that plow would probably help.
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AC7060IL View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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Points: 3575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 10:25pm
My AC TE-163 Industrial D21 brochure list it's wheel tread as follows;
24.5x32 tires = 70-82"  Thats 70" with tires set in & 84" with tires set out.
The wheel tread refers to the center to center distance of tires, so you need to add 24.5 to 70 (in other words, add 12.25" additional Left side of left tire + 70" + an additional 12.25" right side of right tire) to figure a 94.5" minimum width @ the 70" tread wheel setting.

A 9000 6 bottom plow equipped with 16" shares would have a total width of 96".
Assuming that the D21's drawbar would pull on its center alignment, the plow hitch should be adjusted to 48" left of furrow wall. In theory, this setup would allow 1.5" from outside of D21's right rear 24.5 tire thats running next to furrow wall.  This setup should allow both tractor & plow draft lines to remain centered.  A centered draft line will aid for easier tractor steering, while also equalizing the plow's entire load to it's hitch point. 
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AC7060IL View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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Points: 3575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 10:27pm
Correction:
the above scenario would allow 0.75" from furrow wall to tire, not 1.5"....
I forgot to center it...
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AC7060IL View Drop Down
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Points: 3575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 7:16am
Another correction:
After digging through my old college Ag Mech plowing notes, I found that I forgot a key note about centerline draft of the plow. It's notes that a plow's center draft is 1/4 distance left of it's share width (1/4 of 16" share is 4"). So instead of the plow's center line draft having 48"(6shares x 16"/share = 96". 96" divided in half = 48"), I should of stated 44" from furrow (48" minus 4" = 44"). That calculation would also apply to the tractor's centerline draft position. Hence, the D21 just lost another 4" between its rear tire & the furrow.
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The simple answer is yes he can move the hitch and plow on land. Also in the simplest of generalities all plows under 5 bottoms need to be pulled in furrow to have anything close to a decent line of draft. Plows in the 6-7 bottom range can be either on land or in furrow and have still decent lines of draft. Any plow over 7 bottom would be best hitched on land. Again these are not rules, just generalities. What happens with smaller plows when you try to pull them on land is there is a lot of pressure placed on the landsides and this makes them pull harder. Important if your plowing hundreds of acres, makes no difference if you just knocking around as long as you have the HP to deal with it.
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Points: 2307 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jiminnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 8:42am
Nothing scientific but I pulled 7 bottom with mine and I had 18.4 38 duals on mine and it worked fine so I would think with large singles the tractor would be narrower.
1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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If the tractor has differential lock, centering the load is less critical. With the right wheels in the furrow, the right wheel tends to have better traction than the on land wheel and so the tractor tends to turn away from the furrow towards the land but the front wheel in the furrow (needs its inside face the same distance from the tractor center as the rear) keeps it from really turning. Even then I found pulling my 2000 plow that differential lock made the tractor steer easier whether pulling 3x 18 or 4x18.

A trailing wheel on the plow laying over a bit in the last furrow takes most of the wear off the landsides. Generally a part of semi mounted plows.

Gerald J.
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Originally posted by AC7060IL AC7060IL wrote:

Another correction:
After digging through my old college Ag Mech plowing notes, I found that I forgot a key note about centerline draft of the plow. It's notes that a plow's center draft is 1/4 distance left of it's share width (1/4 of 16" share is 4"). So instead of the plow's center line draft having 48"(6shares x 16"/share = 96". 96" divided in half = 48"), I should of stated 44" from furrow (48" minus 4" = 44"). That calculation would also apply to the tractor's centerline draft position. Hence, the D21 just lost another 4" between its rear tire & the furrow.



I think the 4" should be added to the 48" which would put the centerline of draft 52" to the left of the furrow wall.
Mark

B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity

Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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Points: 4550 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 8:45pm
If you pull the plow on land you will need a front wheel with hydraulic lift on the plow that runs in the furrow . Have a 7 furrow 3000 Mono frame plow semi mounted with an on-land hitch. The later 2500 Mono frame on-land hitch plows were trail only.
You will notice from the pictures that the 9000 series on-land hitch plows are trail plows,
not semi-mounted.
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Points: 2307 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jiminnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 9:14pm
you don't have to have front furrow wheel on plow, lots without but I think it is easier to tell where to drive if you do have one.
1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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Farmerhg View Drop Down
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When I tried to run a 6 bottom 9000 on land it wouldn't pull straight.When I moved it over and ran in the furrow it pulled straight and did a really nice job.
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427435 View Drop Down
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Points: 18637 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by Farmerhg Farmerhg wrote:

When I tried to run a 6 bottom 9000 on land it wouldn't pull straight.When I moved it over and ran in the furrow it pulled straight and did a really nice job.


If you are hooked to a plow so that you are pulling straight ahead on the center of draft or a little to the left, the plow will tend to cut wider due to the side loading on the shares and moldboards.  It will also increase the loading on the land sides and make the plow pull a little harder. 

Ideally, if you can angle the pull a little to the right from the center of draft, the plow will pull straighter and easier.  At least that is what the service guys always tried to do when setting up for the Farm Progress Shows back in the day.
Mark

B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity

Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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Points: 4550 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 7:41am
I think it would be difficult to get a 6 furrow plow set up correctly to pull good with an on land hitch. A 7 furrow would work better but I still can't get my 220 with duals far enough away from the furrow with my 2500 MONO frame 7 furrow on land semi-mount.
Would work OK with large singles.  Tried a 6 furrow on land with my D-21 on duals 40 years ago and it didn't work so have been in the furrow ever since.
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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No frost in the ground yet, have him hook to it and try it out
Life is tough,but it's tougher when you're stupid. - John Wayne
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Originally posted by EricPA EricPA wrote:

No frost in the ground yet, have him hook to it and try it out


Good idea but they're 130 miles apart.
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Pulled the neighbors 720? 6-16 IH onland hitched plow w/the 220(24.5's).Worked great!
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