This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Other Topics > Pulling Forum
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


AC 210

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
BKarpel View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Location: Collinsville IL
Points: 108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BKarpel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: AC 210
    Posted: 11 May 2014 at 12:19pm
I just got a 1971 AC 210 from a estate sale in michigan, that im thinking of making it in to a puller. This 210 is bone stock off of the farm what can be done to make it pull farm stock 8 and 12 mph. The class rules 2800 RPM, stock looking injection pump, turbocharger inlet bore 2.75" maximum. What can be done to the roosa master, injectors, and turbo and will the clutch and input shaft hold up? Thanks for the help, my uncle has a 7040( 220 rear end) running profarm 466CI, A Pump, with water injection just dont know what can be done to get a stock one to run.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20528
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 6:33pm
Just another stupid Tractor Pulling Club that allows all the drawbars to be the same length and height, tire sizes to all be the same, same turbos, same weight, etc, etc, etc and forces you to stay with a RoosaMaster injection pump.....really ignorant on their part. Switch to an AmBach M100 because the 8000 series had that at least.
Back to Top
Larry W. View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Location: Luck, WI
Points: 280
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 6:38pm
Honestly the first question really is how much do you want to spend on it? There are so many directions to go but it is often based on your budget. You can turn the screw to your stock pump as far as you can and just be happy going pulling. After that it starts to cost. You say stock appearing pump? That can be a grey area by itself. If it was me, I would push to build an ambac pump for it since that came on later 426's factory, and it gives you the best , chance against the red and green show. Some parts of the country may not go for it, but many will. From there, do you want more cubic inch? Few different ways to do that too, how much do you want to spend and how big do you want it? 466, 504, 540, 585, 620? All have been done, each different settup, price too. This is why the first question. I ask when I take on a build is whats your budget? Once I know that, I go from there.
Back to Top
O.P.S. Heads View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Location: Iowa
Points: 574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O.P.S. Heads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 9:45pm
At what weight the tractor will be at running 8 and 12 MPH would be helpful also. 7500, 18,000 with duals, or somewhere in between. Farm stock can have a wide range of weights. Also is this a pace limited class or no pace / horn on the sled etc.

Edited by O.P.S. Heads - 11 May 2014 at 9:47pm
Back to Top
BKarpel View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Location: Collinsville IL
Points: 108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BKarpel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 9:49pm
How much cc of fuel can you get from the AmBach M100 pump. Can those pumps run with a 466 John Deere and Case with A pumps? As for as motor work that is no problem dad has a shop and we can do evething is house. Weight class will be from 10,000 to 12500 single tires no cuting cast centers

Edited by BKarpel - 11 May 2014 at 9:57pm
Back to Top
O.P.S. Heads View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Location: Iowa
Points: 574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O.P.S. Heads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 10:21pm
I have heard the 15 mm head and rotor assy. for an M100 Bosch will produce 550 cc's or more. Big bucks for that set up however. There are pump shops that make 14mm versions also. Again - not cheap. A more common, less expensive, off the shelf, 13mm H and R will produce around 330 cc's. Again - never used one, just numbers I have heard.

I would think with the 2.75 inlet limit it could swallow as much as 550 cc's and make good use of it. Depending on your displacement, You may have to have at least 450 cc's to turn a 2.75 inlet turbo effectively.

The "P" pump Deere's will still have more. Funny how that works.... the Deere's having the advantage that is...

Edited by O.P.S. Heads - 11 May 2014 at 10:31pm
Back to Top
Bled Orange View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 28 Dec 2013
Location: Wheatley, KY
Points: 32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bled Orange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 10:41pm
to bad everybody doesent live in dr allis world but these stuped little clubs are whatmake up the good grassroot pulling. so that the advice of o.p.s and the other good guys and good hookin
CA, D14, D17, D17VI, 180, 185, IH 140 and one damn deere
Back to Top
O.P.S. Heads View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Location: Iowa
Points: 574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O.P.S. Heads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 11:20pm
The stock pump rule is ridiculous. I agree with that completely. If a Deere in the same class came from the factory with a P series inline pump, then all of the other competitors should be able to use the same. That is of course if the rule makers want the class to be colorful and competitive.

The "stock appearing pump" rule is made by someone not knowing enough about writing rules in my opinion.
Back to Top
Larry W. View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Location: Luck, WI
Points: 280
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 12:52am
"Stock appearing pump" this is a bull crap rule, I agree. Its also one of those times when you may have to read what the rules don't say. Stock appearing for make and model? Or stock appearing for a farm tractor in general? After all a P or A pump where stock appearing pumps on some tractors, where as a billet Sigma is not right?   The m100 Ambac pumps make good fuel, and hold there output at higher rpms then any roosa is going too. A good 13mm ambac will bump 390-400 cc's, a   15mm big nut ambac will get into the upper 500 cc range, but it as mentioned is a very pricey pump, but an ambac is the best shot you have if they're not going to let everyone play on an equal field.
Back to Top
O.P.S. Heads View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Location: Iowa
Points: 574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O.P.S. Heads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 1:04pm
Wouldn't it be fun to be at a rules meeting where they suggest the same turbo, tires, weight, hitch etc. and stock appearing pump and have someone with an AC suggest that everyone run a Roosa Master Pump - because that's what came on an Allis. Then everyone would have the same pump too. Boy would the red and green fans squeal with excitement then.
Back to Top
injpumpEd View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 4917
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 4:17pm
With the speed limits you're looking to run in, you'll be fine with the Roosa pump. Just not the stock one. I've been building combinations for just this. It really is fun to hear all the fuel cc numbers thrown around. The more the better isn't necessarily true. Same with the turbo. I'd set you up with something a lot smaller than your limit, and when the other tractors choke, yours will keep going. Bigger isn't always better. Our tractor holds it's own against A pumps, and 13mm m100's. I doubt you'd get to run an M100 unless it was an 80X0.  
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
Back to Top
Larry W. View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Location: Luck, WI
Points: 280
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 6:58pm
Food for thought, whats the price of a top notch roosa fuel system vs a ambac? Then next question, if you choose to step up to a bigger faster class a year or two from now will a roosa keep up at the next level, such as hot farm for example? A bigger m100 pump can always have the fuel output turned down to a lower level, but you can't turn the screw up on a pump that is already at its max. With your class having a 2.75 intake, you can burn a lot of fuel with that much available air. Im simply putting out ideas for consideration, I go through this with anyone I work with, always plan for the future as best you can, it saves you money and headaches in the long run.
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20528
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 7:31pm
And, with an A-C, you're already 40 cubes smaller than Green and Red at a minimum.
Back to Top
BKarpel View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Location: Collinsville IL
Points: 108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BKarpel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 9:58pm
Will a stock clutch and input shaft hold up in these conditions? I know that a AC is out of class by the rules but i just want to add color and be close to the pack.
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20528
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2014 at 5:32am
Input shaft is good up to probably 800 HP or so, depending on your driving habits. New 4 pad clutch disc with a much stronger pressure plate is needed.
Back to Top
Jordan(OH) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Celina, OH
Points: 1547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordan(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 12:13am
Originally posted by BKarpel BKarpel wrote:

I just got a 1971 AC 210 from a estate sale in michigan, that im thinking of making it in to a puller. This 210 is bone stock off of the farm what can be done to make it pull farm stock 8 and 12 mph. The class rules 2800 RPM, stock looking injection pump, turbocharger inlet bore 2.75" maximum. What can be done to the roosa master, injectors, and turbo and will the clutch and input shaft hold up? Thanks for the help, my uncle has a 7040( 220 rear end) running profarm 466CI, A Pump, with water injection just dont know what can be done to get a stock one to run.


Are you saying your uncle runs a 220 with 7040 sheet metal? Or?  A 7040 is NOT a 220 rear end.
Back to Top
BKarpel View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Location: Collinsville IL
Points: 108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BKarpel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 11:57am
Its a 220 rear end with a tube frame covered in 7040 sheet metal
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum