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D 14 Hydraullic pump

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acw592 View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010
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    Posted: 18 Feb 2010 at 7:22pm
You guys have been helping me on a issue I'm having with my lift arms not going down. I have been told by several of you that it is probably the hold position valve. I am just about to drop it out of the tractor, will do that in the morning. I am not sure what I am looking for. I did notice that the hold valve plunger just slops around. I can pull it out/push it back in and theres not any resistance. The control valve plunger below it is different. It has resistance when pushed, you can tell its pushing hydraullic oil. Should the hold valve plunger be able to go in and out so easilly. Also when I drop the pump down in the morning and take the hold valve apart, what should I look for if it is gummed up? I am hopeing that when I take it apart I will be able to see how it works and figure out if there is a problem with it. I just have never been into anything hydraullic before. If someone who has been into one of these could give me a little insight I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
 
Andy
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BrettPhillips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrettPhillips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2010 at 8:54pm

The hold valve plunger is made with what looks like a martini glass on the end that goes inside the valve housing.  The "martini glass" holds the check ball and keeps it centered on its seat.  A common failure mode in the hold valve is for the plunger to break off at the "stem" of the "martini glass".  With the symptoms you describe, that is what I would guess is wrong with your hold valve.

  I had this same problem with my D14 when I bought it, and I ended up just going through the entire pump while I had it out and replaced all of the check balls and their springs.  Note that if there is a spring behind the check ball in your hold valve, it should be discarded.  There was a service bulletin on this, and it noted that the spring was often deformed and caused some hold valves to leak.  Leaving it out doesn't seem to make any difference in the operation of the system.  When you put it back together, be sure to replace the o-ring between the pump and the hold valve, as well as the one that seals the hydraulic tube to the hold valve.  Also be sure to re-adjust the traction booster linkage and the lift/lower linkage per the service manual.  If you ever get the chance to pull a plow or ANY Snap Coupler implement that engages with the ground, by all means do it.  The Traction Booster (draft control) system on these tractors is pure bliss!

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acw592 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acw592 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2010 at 9:29pm
Thats a Big help, I just wasn't sure what I was getting into or looking for. Thanks!!!
 
Andy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acw592 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 2:34pm
Brett,
 
That was the problem. The plunger was broken off where you said. I ordered a new one and some O-rings for around $5. I also had a bad roller on one of the cam followers and ordered that also. I was wondering how you remove the valve seat in the hold valve? the manual says to "tap the seat to accomodate a puller screw". Can a punch be used to tap it out and back in again? The manual also said that the valve ball may be seated by using a soft punch and tapping with a hammer. I'm kinda lost on that step. Is that for re-assembly? and what are you seating the ball into? It looked to me that the ball just remained in the area behind the valve seat and the plunger pushes it away or allows it back.
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Charlie (NC) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie (NC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 3:22pm
ACW.., I had that problem once.  It happened all at once for no understandable reason.  I dumped the oil out of it, took the bottom of the sump off, layed on my back with the book in my hand, checked all the linkages, etc.  Couldn't find a thing that looked broken, worn or otherwise wrong.  I put it back together, put the fluid back in it and it went back to working just fine.  All I could figure out was a piece of trash somewhere or something like that.
 
 


Edited by Charlie (NC) - 19 Feb 2010 at 3:23pm
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BrettPhillips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrettPhillips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 4:35pm

Glad to hear that it was relatively simple to find the trouble.  I'm surprised you were able to buy the plunger so cheap.  I seem to remember it being more like 20 or 30 bucks?  I hope the bad cam follower didn't cause trouble with your camshaft (main drive shaft).    Regarding seat removal, I can't remember what size tap I used to thread it, but if you can find a drill that will fit the hole it will give you a good idea of what the I.D. is, then you can check a tap-drill chart to find the proper tap.  Somehow I'm thinking it may be 5/16-18?  After threading the seat, use a bolt with the same thread and some washers to pull out the seat.

  When reassembling the pump, I bought all new check balls, and bought a few extras of each size.  Some of the extras were brazed to the head of small socket (allen) head cap screws to make a device for grinding the seats.  To grind the seats, I chucked the shank of the cap screw in the drill press, applied a little bit of lapping compound to the ball and pressed it into the seat with the drill press running about 200 rpm.  Don't apply steady pressure, a few short busts of 3-4 turns should do the trick. I started with 320 grit and finished with some #2000 diamond lapping compound, but 600 will probably be fine.  Be sure to throroughly clean all of the grit out of the seats and pump when you have finished lapping!  The remaining extra check balls were used as sacrificial lambs.  As described in the manual, place a new ball on the seat and give it one good hard whack with a hammer and punch, then discard the now damaged ball and replace it with another new one from the same lot, then repeat this process for the remaining balls/seats.  This may seem wasteful, but check balls are cheap, and the dented ones make good slingshot ammo.  After rebuilding my pump using this method, my D14 will hold a 3-disk Snap-Coupler plow (pretty danged heavy) at full lift for weeks.  Sorry this got so long...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acw592 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 5:48pm
The fellow at the parts counter was supprised that the plunger was that cheap. He said it must be because the part is being, or has been discontinued. On the seat for the hold valve if I understand you correctly, ( and I am a little slow...just ask my wife ) You do have to remove it to get the plunger out and install the new one? and to remove it, it must be threaded with a tap and then pulled out with a bolt as you described which would of course ruin the seat and a new one installed in it's place. Then on the ball, you suggested to purchase 2 per seat and use the hammer and punch to seat it correctly and then use the other ball for the valve. Sorry for all the questions, I really appreciate the help!
 
Andy
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BrettPhillips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrettPhillips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 6:21pm

Andy:

Yes, the seat must be removed before the plunger can be replaced. The seat isn't necessarily destroyed by the tapping operation, especially if you lap the seat before reinstalling it.  If the seat is in good condition, the ball won't touch the edges of the tapped hole anyway.  Mine was pretty well beat, so I knew I would be replacing it and did not worry about the thread causing problems.  Regarding the check balls, yes you have it right.  A bronze drift might keep you from denting the balls, but I wasn't sure that it transferred enough force to be effective and didn't feel like experimenting.

Charlie:  It does indeed sound like you may have had a piece of dirt in the system somewhere.  I have noticed that when I leave the Traction Booster lever all the way up while pushing snow backward, sometimes the hydraulics will refuse to lift.  When this happens, moving the TB lever will fix the problem right away.  Perhaps I need to double check the TB adjustment when the weather gets decent.  Until then, I will have to remember to keep the TB lever down when I push backwards.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acw592 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 7:17pm
Thanks again Brett, I'll call Dean Ag Services again on monday and order a couple of check balls and maybe the seat in case I tear mine up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedBuiskerN.IL. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 8:26pm
I just ordered a "kit" for my D14 pump.  $127.  Then they had a second kit for it for another $100 or so.  I have a bad roller too, replacement is $227, found another pump for less.
Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acw592 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:57pm
I found the roller at Austin Farms salvage, who advertise here. A used one is $25 and shipping is $10. Just mailed them a check. I thought the new one was way overpriced! I was told the rollers from a WD are the same and will also work.
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