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1939 B
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orangeman View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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    Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 6:47am
Hi Guys:  Stopped by a old friends house and we got around to the subject of Allis Chalmers, he said, do you want an old B for parts, has no motor, but if you want it I am not going to use it so you can have it. 
 
I checked my records and the machine looks to built in 1939, B serial number 20891.   What I noticed was the front rims were nutted on the outside, I remember seeing plenty of pre 40's B with rivets, but this is the first one I had seen that had a stud from the back with a nut on the outside of the rims to secure. 
 
Have any of you seen this setup in a B in your part of the country?
 
Seems like the right engine for this would be a BE 116 block?  Other than that the machine was exceptionally straight with hardly any wear.  No hydraulic pump, but did have the PTO.  Going to add to the stable in about two weeks.  Any ideas on what I should give him as a nice gift, he won't take any money.  But wanted to give him something.  Appreciate your thoughts.
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GlenninPA View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ashley, PA
Points: 5054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 7:46am
Rivited hubs stopped a couple thousand tractors before that one.
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KevinON View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
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Points: 791 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KevinON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 8:07am
If you ever wish to let it go, let me know.  I am looking for a 39 B, as that was my grandfather's first tractor, and have a 41 parts tractor to donate the motor.  Take care.
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ToddSin NY View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Nov 2009
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Points: 1034 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ToddSin NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 9:41am
Orangeman I'm parting out a B if you would want to put this one back together.
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GlenninPA View Drop Down
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Points: 5054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 10:21am
Kevin,
 
I have a few extra '39 tractors that you could classify as parts tractors. Maybe we should swap your '41 for one of mine, as I do not have a lot of '41 parts tractors.
They are probably able to be resucitated(sp), but won't get any attention for a while.
If you are interested, PM me.
NY/PA border south of NY 17.
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Jordan(OH) View Drop Down
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Give him a copy of Norm's book.
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orangeman View Drop Down
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Points: 1781 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 10:59am
Todd: Where are you located? I will be making a parts list very soon.  I probably will need a motor for this machine and would like the engine to be hand crank only, no need for a starter.
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ToddSin NY View Drop Down
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I'm in NY, bout 30 miles east of Rochester. The serial # is 126379. The motor is not stuck.
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orangeman View Drop Down
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Points: 1781 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 11:09am
Hello KevinON:  It is looking like I will be putting this machine back together with some help from the guys here.  Will need parts though.  The machine was built very close to when my Mom was  Born.  So need to see this one through. 
 
Glenn: Can you provide a phone number please.  Thanks a bunch...Orangeman
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B26240 View Drop Down
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Points: 3860 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 1:06pm
orangeman I have s/n B26240 and it had stud front wheels also, I found a pair of rivited wheels and re-rimed them, I think they are more collectable even if maybe not corect . also I have a loder on this one, it will be at the orange spectacular this summer. Mark
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Chalmersbob View Drop Down
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Your 20891 is definetely a 1939 and had riveted front wheels. a prevoius owner probebly removed the rivets and installed bolts or studs from the hub throught he wheels with nut on the outside. 1939 was the only year to use riveted wheels. Bob
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orangeman View Drop Down
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Chalmersbob and Dave Everett Help please.
 
Regarding the front wheels I am beginning to think there was some variability in the fastners used between the hub and the wheels, I have seen the riveted ones. Particularly for the time period between 1938 and 1944.
 
There is a photo in the Dr. Nigel D Haig B Restoration book on page 12 that shows 1938 B with cast front with four slots on the outside, then on page 13 it shows an IB very similar to mine, no rivets but has five nuts securing the hub.
 
Dave Everett can you shine some light on this and give an English perspective? 
 
The 1939 I have does not have rivets drilled out, just studs with a nut on the outside of the rim, and appears to be factory.  
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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38's had a cast front wheel with the rim bolted on with a wedge head bolt. The 39 riveted rims had 6 holes for rivets. The post 39 bolt on wheels had 5 hole rims. I have a 38 with 1 riveted rim with the rivets removed and bolts in place and the other rim is a 5 bolt rim. I'm sure this was done by the previous owner to keep things going. Just use what you got. I believe the studs would have to be a farmer fix, not factory original.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Ken in Texas View Drop Down
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Counting the bolts or rivits helps.
1937 Waukesha had 6 hole automotive type wheels bolted to six hole threaded hubs. Early production 38 Bs had big F&H castiron one piece wheel/hubs. The steel rims fit against a stop and were held in place by 4 wedge bolts. These cast wheel/hub disks were used up until 38 B #9018 with a few exceptions listed in parts books. What the exceptions were is not clear. It could be they were the rivited type that came next.
After B9018 up thru B26524 A 6 hole hub and wheel disk were rivited together.
B26525 and up had the standard 5 hole wheel bolted to the standard 5 hole threaded hub you also see on all Cs and CAs.
It is also noted that some Bs came with 16 inch rims that used special hub assemblies  
 
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GlenninPA View Drop Down
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Bob,
 
I stand corrected, my memory is failing me!!!!
Here is the info from the parts manual....
 
70208621  2 HUB (Riveted to DISC) (Prior to TR. B-26525) (See M.N.I.) (Use 1 each of 70231520, 70228895, 70208620, 70207503) (B)
Add to Basket 70900746 6 RIVET
Add to Basket 70228895 2 HUB ASY. (Std.) (TR. B-26525 & UP) (Incl. Items 9 & 10) (Supersedes 70211993) (B &C)
Add to Basket 70228898 2 HUB ASY. (Special, F/16" TIRE) (Incl. Items 9 & 10) (Supersedes 70228898) (Use 1 each of 70238904, & 70232484) (B)
Add to Basket 70228894 2 HUB ASY. (Incl. Items 9 & 10) (Supersedes 70211992) (IB)
 
Glenn
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Ken in Texas View Drop Down
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Be nice and drop the 70s Glenn. Explain the last number on your long part number notes number of those parts used per tractor unit. Example>B> Hub(riveted to disc)> Rivet> Part # 900746>12. 12 Rivets
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orangeman View Drop Down
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Points: 1781 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 3:22pm
Wow!!! Guys all great information above. You blow me away with the vast knowledge here.  OK, so why the 16" special wheels and hubs, leads me to more questions.  Anyone seen 16" wheels on the front or are they referring to steel fronts?
 
Could it be that rivets worked loose in the field, and the farmer replaced with studs and nuts.  Could be, also wonder if in fact rivets worked loose if Allis ever issued a service bulletin for repair of same??  Keep those replies coming. Again, thanks for all the great posts, sure appreciate your wisdom.  
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Points: 9524 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 3:32pm
I have 2 hicrops with 16" wheels/tires same bolt pattern as wd but different back space wheels.
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Ken im real happy to find out that my B s/n 26240 should have riveted wheels as thats what im putting on it in the spring.  I wasn't quite shure when the switch was mad thanks Mark
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