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realolman 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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 Topic: jumping out of gear
Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 6:39pm |
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It seems to be a common problem that AC's jump out of gear.
Why is that, how many years is it a problem, what models? etc.
Why didn't they fix it?
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wekracer
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Location: Tebbetts, MO
Points: 1587
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 7:18pm |
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some will argue that the transmission was a bad design and while it was the weak point of an allis, the fact is that all the tractors in this list are at the newest 30 years old and some as old as 50 years. The actual cause of them jumping out of gear is grinding gears. It is 100% operator error. I personally have (4) D 17 IV's, CA, D15 II and a 175 that have never jumped out of gear. As far as I know none have ever had the tranny apart and my grandpa bought the CA new and the D 15 came from the orrigional owner. Before my dad ever let me run a tractor he instisted that I stop before I shift. It's that simple. Stop before you shift or hold the clutch for a few seconds while in Neutral and the transmission will last forever.
As far as I know, all the tractors except the 6000, 7000, and 8000 serries could jump out. I believe the 7000 itself had the orrigional manual trans. some others will know for sure.
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mark/indiana
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Central Indiana
Points: 129
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 7:23pm |
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Do you mean to say that you never speed shifted a WD or WD-45 with the hand clutch?? The wore out gears are indeed old...the one's frequently sighted are the ones most commonly used....for plowing and loader work....ALSO how often were the fluids changed in most of these old tractors...?? My 2 cents...
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mark/indiana..."My favorite Allis Tractor or Crawler is the one I'm sitting on at the time!!..
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7060
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Points: 1148
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 7:55pm |
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My 7060 would would jump out of 4th anytime it was going down hill. We used 4th for baling hay and in the hills you would go for a ride if you didnt hold it in going down hills. First gear seized to the shaft though so theres another transmission in it now.
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AllisFreak MN
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Points: 1550
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 9:09pm |
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I was led to believe that the problem was mostly with the models that had the long bent gearshift lever. People that didn't know any better would try to force it into gear while grinding them thus bending the shift fork and/or rounding off the edges of the gears. The long shift lever gave extra leverage to do more damage than the little stubby lever on the D17. I was told that is why D17's had less problem with jumping out of gear. This was what an old A-C mechanic told me.
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Bill Long
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bel Air, MD
Points: 4556
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 9:39pm |
The very late WD's moved up to a "constant mesh" transmission. The gears were in constant mesh. To engage them collars were shifted which engaged to splines on the gear. If one fully stopped before shifting there was no problem. However if one shifted on the go or with the hand clutch the collars and the splines became rounded thereby causing the gear to POP.
Sometimes we got lucky and were able to split the tractor and put in a larger snap ring. However, one must remember these units are at least 50 years old so if you get that far you may as well replace the gears and the collars. It is rather expensive but that is the positive fix.
What units I sold had this problem? The late WD, WD-45, CA, D-14, D-17, D-10, and D-12. If I remember correctly all the others earlier WD, WC, G, B, C, and others I did not sell UC, WF, and other models - younger than 1952 did not have the "constant mesh" transmission.
Cannot talk on models after 1962.
Hope this is some help.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Dans 7080
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Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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Posted: 05 Feb 2010 at 1:51am |
I have three WD-45s non of them would think of jumping out of gear, however my D19, 200, and 7060 do at times. The D19 and 200 jump out of "3rd" gear while going down hill and the 7060 jumps out of "4th"gear. Every tractor i have will hold any gear on the "pull" side. My 7080 holds all gears up or down, the only exception i have is my 7040, it has a "weak" high range on the shifter, but what do you exect after putting over 9200hrs on it. I also have a D17 that holds gears properly
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realolman
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Posted: 05 Feb 2010 at 5:10am |
SO, it isn't a design thing?
I have not heard of it as pervasively in other brands, that are just as old.
Seems like it would have to be a design flaw, but I wonder why they didn't fix it?
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29782
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Posted: 05 Feb 2010 at 6:06am |
Helical gears naturally push away from each other but they can take more HP than a straight cut gear and are quiet while a straight cut is very noisy. Grinding gears makes the problem much worse. You should fix the problem ASAP or you will end up spending much more. Usually it's just a matter of replacing thrust bearings but the labor cost these days makes it impractical. My thoughts are if you can do it yourself do it but it is very involved. Sometimes you can fix it by moving the detent so the gear engages further. 7010 on up don't usually have this problem because they have what are called torque lock gears. I've never run into a 7000 series with this problem.
Deere uses syncronizers to eliminate grinding but when they go bad hang on to your hat and of course the shifting nightmare and those darn poppet remote valves. Never had much to do with Deere so there may be other flaws. Oh and the sucking sound of fuel flaw. IH used the straight cut gear almost to the end but then you had the 2000 hr TA if you're lucky and weak front axle and PTO and all those wear parts on the 3-point and the clutch shaft splines ripping out and the automatic replacing of the hydraulic pumps every time you open one up and the bad shifting problem and rear axle breakage etc. That's with nearly all models. I worked at both an AC shop and CaseIH and there are many more problems with the red vs the orange. I usually don't bash another make too often but I must be ornery this morning.
Edited by Lonn - 05 Feb 2010 at 6:07am
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Bobby in King NC
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: King, NC
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Posted: 05 Feb 2010 at 6:47am |
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Just my 2 cents, its the constant mesh design that had this problem and was caused by grinding the collars while shifting gears. Of my 6 D10s, I have had to fix transmission in 4 of them and they were all second and or third gear worn off collars. Mr. Long, I am in full agreement with you. Thanks, Bobby.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
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Posted: 05 Feb 2010 at 6:59am |
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I leave the pto engaged all the time on my CA. Makes the gears stop quickly so I don't grind. Neither my CA or D17 jump out of any gears.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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j.w.freck
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: karnack texas
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Posted: 05 Feb 2010 at 9:32am |
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i have 5 wd45,s including 2 diesels,none jump out of gear.we had 4 ,45s on the farm where i grew up.if the ole man caught you speed shifting with the hand clutch.there would be an anormous german hand up the side of your head.i learned real fast...
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