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Tiger Joe 
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 Topic: hd7gb stalling randomly
Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 10:07am |
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Hey guys,
Dont post on here much as its been winter and havent been using the machine. long story but please bare with me as I could use some help!
Its my dads machine- AC HD7GB, has the 6 cylinder turbo diesel engine. We have been battling an oil leak for quite some time. we had thought it was the oil pan- leaking so much oil its covering the radiator/fan shroud. replaced pan gasket twice, no luck. oil seems to be coming from the front of motor, dad says around the damper area, any ideas on this?
Second big thing- we got the machine stuck in the mud, sunk in good and deep. took two days to get it out. While getting it out, it did start to overheat a few times, but my dad would immediately shut it down when he noticed it. he got it out by going down a large hill, busted off the stack and broke two windows- machine seemed to run fine afterwards though. Dad parked it to try to fix the oil leak for the 2nd time, puts pan back on, start using it. Now here is the issue- we are building a road, and hauling dirt, we go get a bucket of dirt, drive up a hill approx 300 ft ill say, and the machine will sometimes stall out at the top. Also the exhaust seems to have a different "note" to it.
The machine never stalled like this prior to getting it stuck, so did we do damage to it? any ideas where we should start looking?
thanks!
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Lazyts
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Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 10:48am |
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Oil leak is probably front crankshaft seal. I can't think of why getting it stuck should cause engine problems, though.
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Lazyts
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Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 12:47pm |
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I'd start with fuel filters, or could be sediment or junk in fuel tank. I had that problem with an HD11- turned out someone had dropped a rag in the tank. (I'm assuming you are talking about the engine stalling)
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 12:53pm |
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yes engine stalling. for example, we were putting in a pipe, machine sitting there off. start it up, back down the road- approx 300 ft, scoop a full bucket of dirt, drive back up, right near top machine wants to shut off. engine rpms start dropping. sometimes we could catch it and throttle it to save it, other times it shut off and would turn over quite a while before starting
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michale34
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Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 3:15pm |
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I would check those fuel filters and check the bottom of the tank sounds like something cloging pickup line when goinp up the hill i had this happen to a hd6g hilift found that some kids put a hand fuel of leaves in the fuel tank when loading a truck it would die.
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 3:52pm |
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Check for pieces of governer O ring blocking the check valve on the return line from the injection pump. Will run and then stall out. After a few minutes it will restart OK. Had this happen on a D-21 with the same engine and a Roosa-Master pump. You can knock out the check valve ball and things could be OK but soon the injector pump will have to be rebuilt.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Ages Cat
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Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 9:29pm |
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Check the fuel supply, rag dirt over the fuel inlet, plugged filters, etc. Had this on 1 JD, one AC crawler and a Case crawler. Always turned out to be an obstruction to the fuel supply.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 4:05am |
Sort of O/T
Diesel apprentice son's addition to modern day fuel tank blockages they meet
A pack of roll your own cigarette papers
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CAL(KS)
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Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 6:02am |
check that your crankcase breather is not stuck with mud. I know this sounds strange, but I had my HD16 in the mud once and the breather tube got plugged.
I was having issues with rpm changes and lack of power. i even shut off the tractor because i thought i was out of fuel but still had plenty. Turns out, since the breather was plugged, my crankcase pressure was venting through the oil return hose and through the governor vent on the back of my injection pump, cause the erratic operation.
A 7G may not have an injection pump with oil lubed governor, I dont know, I think it may have been only on the big motors but worth a check. Your issue does sound like a fuel blockage as other have stated.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 09 Apr 2013 at 6:04am
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 6:23am |
Thanks for the tips guys.
Actually when my dad did try to drain the fuel tank with the fitting on the bottom, he couldnt- turns out the pipe was all rusty, he punched a wire up thru it and a bunch of rust came out.
maybe we had junk in the bottom of the tank, and all the rocking the machine to get it out of the mud loosened it up.
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 20 Apr 2013 at 6:18pm |
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Ok bumping this up. Found our oil leak- crank seal. How do we get the balancer off? Just use a puller like a car? We tried but bent our puller, I'm guessing we need a bigger one?
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Dozer
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Posted: 20 Apr 2013 at 6:42pm |
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I hate to ask but you did remove the large bolt behind the hydraulic pump. The crank has a tapered nose. There is a spacer and seal sleeve behind the pulley (earley model) or later model hub.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 20 Apr 2013 at 8:28pm |
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With tapered crank nose do you have to lap in the adaptor like we did on the old Cummins?
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 20 Apr 2013 at 9:19pm |
 Dozer wrote:
I hate to ask but you did remove the large bolt behind the hydraulic pump. The crank has a tapered nose. There is a spacer and seal sleeve behind the pulley (earley model) or later model hub. |
You lost me. You mean the large bolt in the center of the balancer? We removed that. I haven't worked on the machine, just my dad
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Lazyts
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Posted: 20 Apr 2013 at 11:08pm |
Yes- sounds like bigger puller would be the order of the day. Back out the large bolt in the center of the damper, but leave bolt and washer installed, and push against bolt. If you don't leave the bolt and washer in place, you may get it in the teeth when it comes loose! Some guys put "never-seez" on the crankshaft nose, and that seems to make them stick even tighter- I guess they press on harder with the lubrication, and it is almost like they are welded on. They are best installed dry (in my opinion). I use an "H" puller, with bolts threaded into the damper hub.
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 24 Apr 2013 at 7:15pm |
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Bump-
What puller are you guys using to pull these big balancers? I tried ordering a Mac tools puller but its too small. A 7/16" bolt won't even fit thru it. That's the size of the threads on my damper
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DMiller
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Posted: 24 Apr 2013 at 7:21pm |
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Most of the tooling for these machines were custom made in house if not worked by a dealer with factory equipment. A 1/2" steel plate cut out slotted for the bolts, with a nut welded to a center hole for a push bolt is typical, tighten it up and then hammer shock the set up to dislodge the hub. I have not found many large enough assembly pullers on the street worth the money to buy them.
I have made many over my years busting knuckles and twisting bolts.
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Lazyts
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Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 7:49pm |
I use a 522 OTC puller- same as Mac PP522. Like DMiller says- you can make your own if you are in a bind. Some guys have a piece of plate literally peppered with holes that they have used for various projects. I even saw a guy use a jack-all for a puller once- he just shimmed the end of the shaft with a bunch of nuts or a chunk of whatever he could find, then used bolts through the holes in the jack beam to force with. Where there's a will there's a way, they say.
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 29 Apr 2013 at 8:45am |
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thanks guys, We were able to take the puller we had ordered, and have the holes machined just slightly larger for the 7/16" bolt. got it off and the seal out saturday. Think dad is working on finding a new seal now
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 20 May 2013 at 8:20pm |
ok guys bumping this back up for opinions.
fixed crank seal, machine still runs like  . my dad pulled the turbo because it has excessive shaft play, but we are suspecting more issues than just a turbo.
prior to removing turbo here is what we had- we fixed seal, had radiator cleaned and checked while it was out, new fuel filters.
machine will start up and run perfect. start down onto our property, if you try to pull up the long hill, by the top of the hill it is shooting black smoke out the stack (not tons but some) and my dad said whitish smoke out the breather tube.
for now we have pulled the turbo to rebuild. could this be an internal issue? head gasket?
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Dozer
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Posted: 21 May 2013 at 9:30am |
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Try removing the fuel line from the filters and force compressed air back to the fuel tank. Are you stalling from full throttle? Is it a sudden stall or does it loose RPM for a short time then stall? If you think it is internal loosen the line to the injectors one at a time while running at a slightly high idle while noteing RPM loss to locate a possible weak cylinder. I think the problem is with fuel delivery.
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Dozer
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Posted: 21 May 2013 at 9:44am |
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The 7G is ment to run at full throttle. I think that if it smokes black at the end of a long climb up hill that says the govenor sensed the need for more fuel. If it run badly going up the hill that is another issue. Can you hear the turbo whistle? Is the air cleaner clear. My 7G is for sale located in south western NY
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 21 May 2013 at 10:29am |
The stall is not sudden, the machine gradually loses rpm and dies. I would probably say it wasnt from full throttle, maybe 3/4 throttle.
as far as turbo whistle, honestly i wasnt near the machine last time it ran- dad is relaying this info to me- BUT i do remember that after they got the machine stuck and out, the exhaust had a different note- if remember correctly it definitely did not have as distinct of a turbo whistle.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 21 May 2013 at 2:16pm |
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You could check your fuel line and valve under fuel tank could be haf plug .
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AC Mel
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Posted: 23 May 2013 at 10:00am |
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Thought I should weigh in and give some support to Calvin's post about the Roosa-Master pump. It' s a given that if you run one of those long enough it will start coming apart and plug up the check valve and give you all those symptons. We've had it happen on 11s and 645s. You can pull the check valve out of the line and see if it has pieces in it and clean it sometimes it might go for quite a while, but it's the first indication that you need to rebuild the pump. When you get all the other bugs worked out, that's where I'd look ( I can already picture those little pieces in there and digging them out with a pointed o-ring pick) I'm also assuming that it is a Roosa-Master pump
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DMiller
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Posted: 23 May 2013 at 8:21pm |
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I have dealt with Stanadyne and Roosa Master pumps for a long time, that relief ball fitting to keep the main pump case from over pressurizing has been a sore spot for many owners not only to Allis but Deere, GMC, Ford and other engine companies that used them. As the advance coupler wears(fibrous on the old ones) the fibers become wadding in that fitting, If you do have a Stanadyne/Roosa and find trash there it is time for a rebuild.
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Tiger Joe
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Posted: 25 May 2013 at 12:26pm |
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When we crack an injector line how much fuel should be coming out? Ours is just like foaming out. We expected to be getting sprayed with diesel?
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Dozer
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Posted: 25 May 2013 at 7:57pm |
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The test is to bypass the fuel to one injector at a time. That cylinder will not fire causing decreased RPM. If there is no RPM loss that cylinder is NOT making power. Testing my HD6G showed a dead cylinder. I thought I had a bad head gasket because I was also blowing coolent from the radiator. I had a cracked cylinder sleeve. When you loosen the injector fitting a small amount of liquid fuel is released. It shouldn't be foamy. How the released fuel looks is very subjective. If the released fuel from all injectors looks similar do not worry. If one cylinder is foamy that injector line is sucking air.
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DMiller
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Posted: 25 May 2013 at 8:06pm |
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Sorry to say one injector line foamy is not the line sucking air, these are high pressure systems, 1800-2400 psi discharge to the nozzles from the pump, foaming indicates the injector pump sucking air or getting air from somewhere in the suction line to the pump.
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DMiller
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Posted: 25 May 2013 at 8:08pm |
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The fuel from a line that has been loosened should be consistent and liquid not foaming, it is in cc's delivery rate not ounces so is in small quantity but continuous as the injection element in the pump pushes fuel.
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