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42 Millitary Issue B |
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Ken in Texas ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Henderson, TX Points: 5919 |
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I'm off to Austin Texas today to swap some parts and stories with the man who is building a clone of a 42 Military Industrial B. Not a IB. More later. Ken
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GlenninPA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ashley, PA Points: 5054 |
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Ken,
Get some photos and other info to share. would be neat to see.
Glenn
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Ken in Texas ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Henderson, TX Points: 5919 |
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sorry . No pix yet. Jim is still collecting pieces of Bs for this project.
Collecting hard data for this project is as hard as collecting parts . The only refrence found so far for a purchase of AC Bs by the goverment is 98 Allis Chalmers light wheeled tractors, M3 in 1940. This refrence does not specifically mention Model B.
The War Department technical manual TM 9-782, dated June 12 1942, refers to, Tractor, Light, wheeled, Industrial type (A-C Model B) Were the 98 light wheeled tractors purchased in 1940 Bs ? Were they the only B Models purchased by the government between 1940 and 1945? Was the 1942 dated TM 9-782, manual covering information only for the 98 B Tractors purchased in 1940. The jury is still out.
Other data on sales of AC Bs to the government will have to come from Allis Chalmers Archives. Does anyone on this site have any information they would care to share with Jim on the subject of AC Bs purchased by the government?
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GlenninPA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ashley, PA Points: 5054 |
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I was hoping somebody had a better picture of that grill on the front. Is M3 the designation for the B?
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BrettPhillips ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Strasburg, VA Points: 808 |
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This is neat! Â I was able to download the Army TM at: http://ia331410.us.archive.org/0/items/Tm_9-782_tractor_light_wheeled_industrial_type_a-c_model_b/TM9_782_1942.pdf Figure 1 shows a view of the military B with Grill Guard. Â The guard looks a lot like the ones used on D-series tractors. Â It also appears to be a good source of info on the B for those who are too cheap to actually pay money for an operator's/service manual... |
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GlenninPA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ashley, PA Points: 5054 |
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I downloaded the same manual, but was not familiar enough with the D series to make that connection.
Edited by GlenninPA - 22 Sep 2009 at 3:42pm |
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Rick of HopeIN ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Hope, Indiana Points: 1296 |
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probably needs a hitch
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morton(pa) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lancaster, PA Points: 1234 |
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Glenn, I noticed that this manual is stamped "Franklin and Marshell College Library". You dont happen to think it could be the same franklin and marshell down here in lancaster, do you? Anybody know of any other franklin and marshell colleges? I might have to do some digging IF I have time...
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GlenninPA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ashley, PA Points: 5054 |
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Yes morton, I think it is one and the same. Maybe you could go over there and get us a better image of the photos?
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Ken in Texas ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Henderson, TX Points: 5919 |
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Jim has a original TM 9-782 manual he found on Ebay. The M3 designation for the closest thing resembling a B comes from the war department list of all military vehicles purchased from 1940 thru 1945. Lots of other ACs were purchased during the war. The list is long. Other refrences in other war department documents directly linked to the Model B refer to them as M1.
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morton(pa) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lancaster, PA Points: 1234 |
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I am going to re-vamp this thread after something I found while looking at things on e-bay this evening. I would have assumed it was just an early IB manual, BUT it is stamped War Department at the top. Somebody snag this thing up and tell me what is on the inside!!! Check it out and tell me what you think:
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outlook6 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Points: 64 |
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Morton,
You are correct, that is the original WWII army manual for the AC B. Base on some searching I've done it is the only manual issued by the Army for the model B. The ORD 9-SNL G-94 (which would have been the Ordnance Dept. complete parts list) apparently was never issued. At least neither the National Archives, the US Military History Insitute , or any other museum archives I've contacted have any indication that it was ever published. There was a change notice, "TM 9-782 C. 1" that was issued by the War Dept. on Dec. 30, 1942. These are the only official two documents I've been able to find.
There is a Dec. 1945 Ordnance Dept. summary report showing total acceptances of all vehicles (tanks, trucks, cars, trailers, tractors, etc.) accepted 1940 thru 1945. It indicates 96 ea. "Tractor, wheeled, light, M3" were delivered by Allis Chalmers in 1940. The report does not indicate what the AC model number was. The contract number and production order number were both listed in the report. When I searched the National Archives for these two documents, I was told that it was standard practice for the Army to destroy contract records once the contract was successfully completed, thus they no longer existed.
The National Archives suggested I contact the manufacturer to see if they still had any records. But I'm unaware that any of the Allis Chalmers manufacturing records still exist and even if they do, would they be searchable?
Since the only summary report of acceptances I have obtained is from the Ordnance Dept. It is my hunch (only a hunch) that only 96 model B's were purchased by the Ordnance Dept. However, more could have been procured by other branches of the War Dept., Quartermaster Corps, US Army Air Force, etc., or even the Navy Dept.
Anyhow that's just my two cents worth. Best regards, Jim
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Jacob (WI,ND) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Kenmare, ND Points: 1245 |
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I find this project VERY interesting too! PLEASE get pics and all the info you can to share when the time comes!!
I being one that is restoring a 1956 Chevy pickup that was originally made for the NAVY, I know how frustrating it can be to find info on these old government things. There are basically no records. And if there are anywhere by some slim chance, they are stashed away in some dusty corner where no one can access them, or even know about them. Good luck!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
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outlook6 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Points: 64 |
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Other than the TM 9-782 manual the only other WWII document I've come across that references the model B is a report issued by the Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey, February 18, 1943. The Raritan Arsenal noted on the cover page "that this is not an official War Department publication". This document is nothing more than a photo album of Ordance items Group A through Group G. (Group G is for all combat vehicles, trucks, tractors, and trailers, etc.)
The one referenced page to the Allis Chalmers B is attached below. In this book there are 3 Allis Chalmers track laying tractors out of 16 listed but the B is the only wheeled tractor in the book. Other than the legend under the image there is no other information provided by the authors.
Jim
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GlenninPA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ashley, PA Points: 5054 |
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It was a search to find the IB pintle hitches, I can't even imagine what it would take to find the one pictured above.... Wish there was a rear and front view of this tractor, can't wait to see your repro Jim. Keep us posted.
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gary ny ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: verona ny Points: 361 |
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I wonder what the thing is on the steering colum
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
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gary,it might be a fire extinguisher. Why is the hand crank not engaged in the holder?
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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Why don't they just put a starter in the mounting hole
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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outlook6 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Points: 64 |
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Glenn, I have a pintle hook from an Allis Chalmers M-7 Snow Tractor that I plan on using until I can I find one like the one in the image. My guess is that the one in the image was used on some other WWII vehicle as well and perusing the ORD 9 SNL's of various trucks and high speed tractors would find it. The nice thing about the ORD 9's is that they provide the ordnance part number as well as the manufacturer's part number, and in many cases illustrations or photos. That's why it's a shame that the ORD 9 for the B apparently was never published. Gary, The thing on the steering column is a fire extinguisher, the same as used in the cabs of other military vehicles during WWII. The one in the image is a Fyr Fyter brand (flat ends). Another type was the Pyrene style with convex ends. Image attached. (Fyr Fyter image I borrowed off the G503 website.) Regards, Jim
Edited by outlook6 - 02 Feb 2010 at 4:18pm |
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mark/indiana ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Central Indiana Points: 129 |
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Howdy....that is probably a pretty standard military spec. pintle hook like we still use today...and the steering wheel deal is either a forms holder ( a military must have) or the extinquisher as suggested...Mark/Indiana and USAF retired..
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mark/indiana..."My favorite Allis Tractor or Crawler is the one I'm sitting on at the time!!..
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GlenninPA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ashley, PA Points: 5054 |
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There must be a lot of those M7 pintle hooks floating around out there.
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GBACBFan ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Green Bay WI Points: 2662 |
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That's a pretty funky grille guard. Is there an available pic of the tractor from the front? I'd like to see what that looks like.
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"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they
are genuine." - Mark Twain |
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RyanTN ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Stewart Co, TN Points: 415 |
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Tucker's question about the crank not seated got me wondering. Do you think the crank would need to be longer than standard to clear the push grill?
Edited by RyanTN - 02 Feb 2010 at 8:44pm |
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GBACBFan ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Green Bay WI Points: 2662 |
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Ryan, I'll bet you're right. Ya gotta love military specs.
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"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they
are genuine." - Mark Twain |
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outlook6 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Points: 64 |
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Here's the only frontal view of the military version in the manual. Interestingly, there are only two pictures of the military version in the manual. All the rest are of the standard civilian model. Regards,
Jim
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GBACBFan ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Green Bay WI Points: 2662 |
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Thank you, Outlook. I really wanted to see what the grille guard looked like from the front. Great pics to archive.
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"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they
are genuine." - Mark Twain |
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Alberta Phil ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Points: 3691 |
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Hardest thing to find for the repro is going to be a set of rear tires with that tread pattern!!
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morton(pa) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lancaster, PA Points: 1234 |
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Oddly enough I think I saw a tread like that in a catalog one time. Glad I sparked new debate and information on the topic! This one always fascinated me as it combines the 2 biggest hobbies of mine. Tractors and WWII. This pintle hitch thing sure has got me wondering too. I remember seeing a back corner view of it one time. I wish I saved that picture but I didn't. It showed the pintle hitch mounted on the regular drawbar somehow I think. Does anyone have that picture?
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DREAM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Location: Elberton,GA Points: 1828 |
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I was looking at the manual. The quarter rear view is bad quality, but it looks like the pintle hitch is mounted at the bottom to the standard draw bar, and has two braces from the top, maybe under the seat/fender bracket rails. I couldn't make much of it.
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RyanTN ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Stewart Co, TN Points: 415 |
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There is a picture of the pintle on page five (or nine) of the Technical Manual listed above. Here is a link you can follow to that manual. It is a copy of a copy, so quality is not that great.
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