D17 Live Hydraulics project

I'm going to say no. You'll need a gear puller to remove the frony pulley. No question about that on the diesel. Your bolster will have to come down.

You can use 2 holes to attach plate to pulley. The other two attach the shaft hub to disc.  Like the AC-Simpicity garden tractor drive shafts are! And other old loader tractors  use 4 bolt hubs-disc and used two in pulley's and other 2 for drive shaft. I don't have a picture of them. They use Heavy flat washers next to disc and spacers if needed and last a long time.  

Edited by farmtoybuilder - 20 Apr 2011 at 7:41am

Hmmm... Thanks 7018..., that'd be a helpful option. Can 'ya snap a picture of it so I can compare it to the pulley I've got?  If it comes down to pulling it off, that'd probably be the wisest move.

Toy-  the 2-pin 'rag joint' coupling is also used in the IH Cub Cadet tractor, so I'm very familiar with those, as well as the contorted rag-joint used on automotive steering systems.  Going with just two bolts wouldn't bother me, with exception that my pump will be huffin' out 21gpm at 1800, and the applied torque would definately snap the bolts out unless the coupler was flush against the holes and clamped down tight... keeping the bolts strictly in shear.  My better move, if I were to do such thing with this sheave, would be to pull it out, chuck it in the lathe, cut off the ramps, and turn a coupler that 'fills' the cavity tight enough so two bolts slipping through would hold it in a position where they wouldn't be subject to any bending moments.

And after looking at all the other variations of front drives, I've decided that if I were an aftermarket engineer in 1959, the best overall way to couple a pump to that sheave, would be to make a coupler that one could slip into the sheave without pulling radiator, shroud, etc., then thread fasteners through and tighten to EITHER sheave with a socket... and then use a splined shaft that would slide in from the front of the tractor, with a pump bracket that slides onto a pair of 1/2" studs in the front casting, with a splined-input pump that slips into the shaft... four fasteners in the whole kit, no need for keyways, set screws, U-joints, rag joints...

Here's what it looks like right now...


The shaft sitting on top is from an aftermarket kit that uses a 3/4" keyed shaft to a 4-bolt coupler, and the other end goes to a U-joint connected to a pump on a big bracket.

There's plenty of room to work and think here... and I think I have a really slick solution.  I gotta get this front pulley out, and once it's out, slide in the 4-bolt coupler pulley, but once this one is out, I'm gonna take some measurements, and see if there's a slick way to make a coupling that'll work with a stock 2-bolt setup, in such a way that we don't hafta disassemble anything or fish any crazy tools in there to slip the whole kit in.



Edited by DaveKamp - 22 Apr 2011 at 3:22pm

That has to be an old D17   ....I've never seen one with a hand crank type pulley.

My 59 D17 D had one on it. would of hated to use it. never did find where the crank was supposed to hide.

Junkman, On the wall in the corn crib. LOL

E7018-  No hiccup- Marshall got it done- it's in my in-laws' car, will be arriving about 2 hours before dinner tomorrow.

No way to get it out of there without pulling the bolster-  not enough clearance for a puller, and tryin' to lever it out will just bust it up.  Whatever I come up with for an improved design, however, will be able to work with either sheave... and able to be installed without taking ANYTHING apart...  Dunno how, but I'll think of something.

I'll have it all apart and ready when it arrives, buddy will help me get it pushed in, and back together, the one comin' out will be in the box heading your way on Sunday afternoon, and we'll get it figured out from there, thanks!!!!

Charlie-  Hee hee... yeah, always check the corn-crib wall.  When we bought our place, I found all kinds'a stuff there...

Hmmm... 2 gallons...  good fluid-power engineering practice is to have one gallon of reservoir for every gallon-per-minute of hydraulic flow.  That not only assures that you have enough fluid to operate implements, it means you'll have enough expansion room for fluid AND... that your fluid turnover rate will be no faster than once a minute... so it'll have time to cool and shed bubbles on the way.

On the low-volume/high pressure lift system, 2 gallons would've been more'n sufficient... but I"m gonna fit a pump that'll swing about 18gpm at full throttle, and be an easy 4-5gpm at idle... guess I'd better find more space... don't think I wanna have any less than 8 gallons on hand, be better to have 10-15 and a good return filter...  Any other 'space' in there that I could use?


Edited by DaveKamp - 22 Apr 2011 at 8:05pm

I'm gonna be running a few things that'll require about 12gpm, and I'd like to do it at about 1200rpm.   I'll be running an unloader valve first in line on the stack so parasitic drag will be pretty low.

And if you're curious what...  it'll be a concrete demolition hammer on the backhoe attachment, as well as a hydraulic firewood processing machine (uses a hydraulically-driven saw, splitter, and log-handling system)... and a 50" side-boom ditch mower... and a hydraulically driven snowblower...  kinda volume-hungry machines.


Edited by DaveKamp - 22 Apr 2011 at 9:00pm

Hee hee... my cousin Tad works for Jon... Mom's family farm is just north of Marengo...  They may 'borrow' an expensive piece to prototype something, then do just what 'ya said- find something 'easier'.  They've been known to 'borrow' parts off of other machines to test the protos, then they get put on-task to find a suitable replacement (and put the other thing back together).  BTW... it's spelled "Kinzenbaw". 

I remember riding with Grandpa up to his Ladora shop to get something busted fixed.  Funny thing is, Grandpa had a perfectly good welder and outlet sitting in his machine shed... he was deathly afraid of electricity, and my uncle didn't want to learn.  Turn the calendar ahead about 15 years, Grandpa gives me the old Lincoln, I took it home, hooked it up, grabbed leathers, shield, and gloves, and started making a metal-mess.  Fast forward another 20, and I'm pretty handy with hot-glue... and my cousin's designing the next big blue implement.  Kinda cool how things work out.

Another note about the pump size... 20gpm IS quite a bit of hog for most guys... but I'm thinkin' ahead.  I'm using a 7/8-13 spline on an SAE B interface... that's pretty common, and making an SAE A bracket means just a smaller pilot hole.  With splines, I'll get two benefits-  First, there's enough slop in a double-ended splined shaft of this length to not need a 'soft' coupling.  I'll 'float' mount the pump to take up any deflection.  Second, they come apart much easier than a keyed, pinned, or set-screw shaft.  It'll only take disconnecting two hoses and two bolts to get the pump out, probably 5 minutes total. 

By doing this, if I feel the drag of the pump is too high, I can swap the pump with a smaller one, or even just pull out the shaft and run the pump without.  I'll also leave enough slack in the lines so the pumpshaft can be pulled without unhooking hoses... and if I can, I'll make the suction tube so that it has to siphon draw a short distance, rather than run full gravity, so that I can unhook a line and lift it a few inches to stop flow.   I hate having hydraulic fluid drip all over my shoes and floor... and it's expensive stuff to be losing.


Edited by DaveKamp - 23 Apr 2011 at 8:45am

...the crank ramps are going the wrong direction to DRIVE a shaft; 

After looking at your pictures for a second time, it looks like there might not be enuf room to pull the pulley as I suggested. However, if there is enuf space to get it started, you might be able to pry it off the rest of the way.

Gatz-  Yes, they're goin' the wrong way... did someone suggest driving off the ramps?

Brian-  pulling it isn't a problem, but there's only about 5/8" clearance between end of the flange and the back end of the bolster... and there's well over an inch-and-a-half of purchase on the pulley flange, so no matter how you look at it, either the bolster needs to come out, or the engine needs to come out, in order to get that sheave out.

The 4-bolt just arrived in the in-law's car, and the bolster bolts are tight enough to bend a stout box-end wrench, so this is gonna be a challenge to my post-op body.  Both the original, and the new pulley are keyway type... and if I remember correctly, my '48 and '39 B and '37 WD are both keyway.


Edited by DaveKamp - 23 Apr 2011 at 2:05pm

Hi Bob!    With the pump facing the engine, and the pulley rotation of the engine turning CW, the pump needs to be CCW.

DaveKamp wrote: Oka Now, I need to disconnect the steering shaft.  It LOOKS like, to me, that the easiest way to do it on the D17, would be to disconnect it at the joint back on the engine bellhousing.  Question is, though... is the pin that holds the yoke in intended to be sacrificial?  It looks mushroomed on both sides, so before I start beating on it, or grinding it, I'll check with someone who's done this before...